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Bird SO fixated with Barbering That I Can't Get His Attention- I feel so depressed

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Old 02-07-2020, 09:42 PM   #11
JackieRTP
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So a skin biopsy can help look for dermatitis, allergic dermatitis, or a fungal infection. He may not have these things of course. It is possible that he could be allergic to something he is eating, even if he has eaten it for years. Once again, not saying that is what it is, just something to consider. I know that you must feel frustrated, but definitely giving him love regardless helps!

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Old 02-08-2020, 12:26 AM   #12
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Okay.... Since your thread about plucking, I read part of a book for parrotlets written by Matthew M. Vriends, Ph.D, who is a foremost expert biologist and ornithologist. He has several advanced degrees in those fields and one in Zoology. He has written over 100 books covering his degrees. He is an avian expert and specializes in small birds with a strength in the parrot species, especially the parrotlet and Quaker plus conure species.


I have read the whole book many times, but in this reading, I only read the pages dedicated to all aspects of parrotlet pluckers.


I want to get this information straight. After all I read, there seems to be several things that make a p'lett pluck/barber, chew/gnaw themselves. To save time and to not be so boring, I will not use quotes, but I will just summarize what DR. Vriends says about the subject.


DIET--This seems to be the main culprit in causing p'letts to pluck. As members have correctly mentioned in their posts to you, the diet can consist of too much of something or too little of something. It all depends on the bird's individual metabolism. Now, what I read is this: Dr. Vriends says that the best way to help your bird fight the urge to pluck can be stifled by making sure your p;lett gets....An addition in the diet of minerals, proteins, vitamins, and amino acids. Willow twigs contain Lignine, which is a powerful amino acid. He makes sure that the reader understands that amino acids is paramount in getting your p'lett to stop or reduce plucking.


Your Avian vet can give vitamin shots with minerals. The best way to insure that your bird gets enough vitamins with minerals is to make sure you use a liquid vitamin in the water supply. The water must be changed every day with new vitamins added. Powder can be fine, but singular bird owners should use liquid. The bird only needs to drink once or twice a day to get enough vitamin in him/her. Powder may sink to the bottom and escape a proper feeding.


HORMONES-- The vet MUST give your bird the proper hormone balance shot during the time your bird plucks. This is another way, besides diet, to fight the plucking. It is highly effective. It can cure the plucking.


ENVIRONMENTAL--- Proper moisture is needed. Too MOIST and your bird will itch. Too dry, he/she is okay. Poor lighting and ventilation will cause plucking!



HOW TO DISCOURAGE YOUR BIRD NOT TO PLUCK--
Basically, Dr. Vriends says to get a lot of sisal rope pieces for them to play with, along with small twigs from fruit, willow or citrus trees or your privet and so on.
Give your bird some interaction or one on one. Scritch the bird on the head only.


VET VISIT-- Have the vet check for mites and intestinal parasites. Yes, parasites in the intestines can cause plucking, especially in Conures!



As you can see, there are many factors that can cause plucking.
It is all about finding out what is the trigger. I have to quit writing now. I do not feel well.



I hope this helps! At least, it tells you a few things. A good vet will be able to help. That is the key !


David and Ricochet




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Old 02-08-2020, 04:03 PM   #13
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One of the recommendations I have seen for vitamin supplements (if one chooses to use them), is to give your bird the powder forms that go on the food. Water soluble types are not as good as they are low in the fat soluble (A and D3), and vitamins break down fast in water losing potency and increase the growth of bacteria. Many vitamins also break down quickly on exposure to light. In addition, food and water additives may change the appearance and taste, making them less palatable and likely to eat/drink less.
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Old 02-09-2020, 02:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Miller View Post
Okay.... Since your thread about plucking, I read part of a book for parrotlets written by Matthew M. Vriends, Ph.D, who is a foremost expert biologist and ornithologist. He has several advanced degrees in those fields and one in Zoology. He has written over 100 books covering his degrees. He is an avian expert and specializes in small birds with a strength in the parrot species, especially the parrotlet and Quaker plus conure species.


I have read the whole book many times, but in this reading, I only read the pages dedicated to all aspects of parrotlet pluckers.


I want to get this information straight. After all I read, there seems to be several things that make a p'lett pluck/barber, chew/gnaw themselves. To save time and to not be so boring, I will not use quotes, but I will just summarize what DR. Vriends says about the subject.


DIET--This seems to be the main culprit in causing p'letts to pluck. As members have correctly mentioned in their posts to you, the diet can consist of too much of something or too little of something. It all depends on the bird's individual metabolism. Now, what I read is this: Dr. Vriends says that the best way to help your bird fight the urge to pluck can be stifled by making sure your p;lett gets....An addition in the diet of minerals, proteins, vitamins, and amino acids. Willow twigs contain Lignine, which is a powerful amino acid. He makes sure that the reader understands that amino acids is paramount in getting your p'lett to stop or reduce plucking.


Your Avian vet can give vitamin shots with minerals. The best way to insure that your bird gets enough vitamins with minerals is to make sure you use a liquid vitamin in the water supply. The water must be changed every day with new vitamins added. Powder can be fine, but singular bird owners should use liquid. The bird only needs to drink once or twice a day to get enough vitamin in him/her. Powder may sink to the bottom and escape a proper feeding.


HORMONES-- The vet MUST give your bird the proper hormone balance shot during the time your bird plucks. This is another way, besides diet, to fight the plucking. It is highly effective. It can cure the plucking.


ENVIRONMENTAL--- Proper moisture is needed. Too MOIST and your bird will itch. Too dry, he/she is okay. Poor lighting and ventilation will cause plucking!



HOW TO DISCOURAGE YOUR BIRD NOT TO PLUCK--
Basically, Dr. Vriends says to get a lot of sisal rope pieces for them to play with, along with small twigs from fruit, willow or citrus trees or your privet and so on.
Give your bird some interaction or one on one. Scritch the bird on the head only.


VET VISIT-- Have the vet check for mites and intestinal parasites. Yes, parasites in the intestines can cause plucking, especially in Conures!



As you can see, there are many factors that can cause plucking.
It is all about finding out what is the trigger. I have to quit writing now. I do not feel well.



I hope this helps! At least, it tells you a few things. A good vet will be able to help. That is the key !


David and Ricochet[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.talkparrotlets.com/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG][IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.talkparrotlets.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]




Thank you. I just bought him a lamp as a new thing to try. I started also running the shower hot before I put him to bed to make the bathroom steam up where he sleeps during at least some of the night as it dissipates through a cracked door. I have 1200 sqft of open 15ft wooe cieling loft so I unfortunately really have zero effect on the humidity when I try to change it in there, I have two humidifiers and it’s a joke. My bathroom is fully walled off so I can manipulate humidity easier in there but he wouldn’t be happy living in there.

Vitamins and minerals you seem to say can be added or given in shot form- why would you give in shot form over adding to food/water? Is there a reason you may choose that method?

Is there specific products of vitamin mineral additives to food and water that you’d recommend besides the standard water drops in petco petsmart that I’ve seen before? Or that the author recommended?

As far as proteins and amino acids- are those in the vitamin supplements too or is that different- What things would be high in that?

On diet- he basically eats 100% zupreem fruit pellets. I’m currently sprinkling Avian Calm by Equa Holistics on top, although it makes no difference from what I can see and it has been months of use. He’s a butt about eating healthy fresh foods, he chucks them and ignores them so I’m not good at it. He does like sprouts when I do them which also isn’t often. I can only successfully do beans and lentils from Whole Foods, everything else seems to fail on me.

Where might one get such branches and shrubbery/barks? I don’t know anyone with citrus trees and what not to steal branches off.

How does the hormone regulation shot work? Is there a name of what that is so I can research further?

He had a clean decal so shouldn’t have intestinal parasites and he was treated last year for mites so I don’t think that’s our issue.

Sorry I edit like all my posts, I have anxiety so I’m prone to rewording or adding things time after time.

Last edited by Brittydagal; 02-09-2020 at 02:57 AM..
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackieRTP View Post
One of the recommendations I have seen for vitamin supplements (if one chooses to use them), is to give your bird the powder forms that go on the food. Water soluble types are not as good as they are low in the fat soluble (A and D3), and vitamins break down fast in water losing potency and increase the growth of bacteria. Many vitamins also break down quickly on exposure to light. In addition, food and water additives may change the appearance and taste, making them less palatable and likely to eat/drink less.
Yeah, I can tell his Avian Calm has a strong flavor bc he loves eggs and won’t eat them if they’re coated in it strongly.

Rec for powder vitamins? Is the petco/petsmart Vita-Sol good or do you have another rec? Thats drops but you can put it on pellets. If you know a good powdered one I’d be open to trying.

I did hear before that if they were on good pellets that they shouldn’t need vitamin additives. Is that not necessarily true?
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:19 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackieRTP View Post
So a skin biopsy can help look for dermatitis, allergic dermatitis, or a fungal infection. He may not have these things of course. It is possible that he could be allergic to something he is eating, even if he has eaten it for years. Once again, not saying that is what it is, just something to consider. I know that you must feel frustrated, but definitely giving him love regardless helps!

I am not sure either about receiving notifications. When I first realized that I had a couple, like 2 months had passed from when they were sent before I noticed. Now I just try to check in the upper right hand corner next to Private Messages to see if I have any.
Good to know, thank you for clarifying.
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brittydagal View Post
Yeah, I can tell his Avian Calm has a strong flavor bc he loves eggs and won’t eat them if they’re coated in it strongly.

Rec for powder vitamins? Is the petco/petsmart Vita-Sol good or do you have another rec? Thats drops but you can put it on pellets. If you know a good powdered one I’d be open to trying.

I did hear before that if they were on good pellets that they shouldn’t need vitamin additives. Is that not necessarily true?
Pellets are vitamin fortified, if he's eating primarily pellets you really don't need another synthetic vitamin supplement. Natural vitamin from fresh foods are always best, but I understand that dosen't always work out. I would still continue to try and feed fresh foods you never know one day he might change his mind. I actually suggest giving him a small amount of seed each day too, a Cockatiel blend is fine even just a teaspoon if you want. You can also try nutriberries, they are vitamin fortified seed. Parrotlet need seed for fat content and hydration as well as it's a natural satisfying action to crack the seeds open. Only pellets can become boring, imagine if all you got to eat was protein vitamin shakes everyday LOL

I LOVE the idea of a skin test. If you try that let me know what it's like, I'm curious.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:08 AM   #18
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I put Avicalm on my guys pellets and on his seed. trust me when they are hungry they will eat, start off with a little and gradually increase.

I did not see an improvement but I tried it. My guy seemed to mellow a bit with age, when he was two ish he was very hormonal and mean, now he is just mean Just kidding, he is kind of nice when he wants to be.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:48 AM   #19
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I see you are feeding zupreem fruit pellets that kind of pellet has dyes in it for the colors so I would try to find another brand like Harrison's or Roudybush and try that. If nothing else try to get him onto the zupreem natural instead it does not have the dyes.

I doubt the dye has anything to do with the barbering/plucking but it is an easy change to try to get a healthier diet. Zupreem also adds in sugar so if you can get him on a better brand like Harrison's or Roudybush it might be better.

I am also a member of another bird forum and one of the members over there has a website with a good pellet guide that lists all the major brands with ingredient lists.. etc
https://www.lilmonstersbirdtoys.com/pellets-for-parrots
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs.JP3 View Post
Pellets are vitamin fortified, if he's eating primarily pellets you really don't need another synthetic vitamin supplement. Natural vitamin from fresh foods are always best, but I understand that dosen't always work out. I would still continue to try and feed fresh foods you never know one day he might change his mind. I actually suggest giving him a small amount of seed each day too, a Cockatiel blend is fine even just a teaspoon if you want. You can also try nutriberries, they are vitamin fortified seed. Parrotlet need seed for fat content and hydration as well as it's a natural satisfying action to crack the seeds open. Only pellets can become boring, imagine if all you got to eat was protein vitamin shakes everyday LOL

I LOVE the idea of a skin test. If you try that let me know what it's like, I'm curious.

I agree with Mrs. JP3 in that I would not add vitamins if a major part of his diet is pllets, since they are already vitamin fortified. Regarding Nutriberries - my parrotlet loves them! I offer as a treat, but some serve as the main meal. They are nutritionally balanced like pellets, just not ground up. Like pellets, NutriBerries contain seeds and grains. I have offered both the parakeet size and the cockatiel size. The cockatiel are a bit bigger. They also come in different flavors, but I have only used the Classic ones. For more detailed information see the following link => https://lafeber.com/product/parakeet-nutri-berries/
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