Petie the Biter

[mcat614]

Hi
I am new to the forum and have a problem with my parrotlet, petie biting. He is almost a year old. He has always been a nipper but it's getting to the point where he tries to bite me when i am putting his food and water in his cage.

he know how to "step up" and there are many times when I take him out of his cage that he loves to sit on my finger and have me give him a head rub. he will stay for quite a while and then all of a sudden he starts to bite. he loves to fly around the room and land on my shoulder (or sometimes my head).

He makes a fuss when i come in the room and usually chatters whenever i leave the room - so i know he is bonded to me.

i am really confused why he would bite me of all people since i am the one who feeds him. even though parrotlets are quite small, he can really hurt when he bites.

usually when he bites i will put him back in the cage but i don't want him to think that putting him back in his cage is a form of punishment.

i am at a loss on what to do, would appreciate any suggestions or help.

thanks,

[catfish]

I think we need to have more information.

What is the size of the cage?

Where is the cage located?

What foods do you feed?

How much time is spent out of cage?

What does he do when he is out? play on play gym? play on top of cage?

How many people does he interact with?

[mcat614]

Hi
thanks for the quick reply.
Petie's cage is 19 inch high by 19 inch wide. The cage is in my craft room where i spend alot of time. He gets a mix of seed as well as veggies, fruit, harrison's high potency and ecotrition. He spends about a half hour out of the cage. When he is out he usually sits on my hand. He also flies around the room, plays on his gym or sits on top of his cage. he will fly around and then land on top of his cage. he also likes to sit on my shoulder.

he usually interacts with me. he doesn't like others to take him out of his cage. he only wants me to do that. there is also two cats in the household. they don't bother him. they sit near him but ignore him.

[nar1122]

Here is an old thread that might provide you with some information:

http://talkparrotlets.com/showthread.php?t=853

[mcat614]

thanks. i read through the thread but still not sure what i should be doing. is there something i am not doing? should i take him out of his cage more? he has plenty of toys in his cage. he loves to sit on his swing. when i am at work I leave the tv on for him. it is funny there are times when he is so lovable and just wants to sit with me. it is very confusing.

[catfish]

There are a number of things that can be going on.

He could be cage territorial, which mine is. He nips me here and there. I've just learned when it is best to go in and do what is needed. Early morning and late afternoons seem to be the best time for me to mess with his cage.

30 minutes a day is not a lot of time out of the cage. I know we are all busy, but by spending more time might help with his frustration which could be the cause of the biting. One of my Quakers was like this. He wanted out more often, but he was in quarantine and this was not possible. He was aggressive about his cage. Since he is now out of quarantine and getting out for multiple hours most days, he has calmed down for the most part. Remember, these little ones are stuck in a cage w/ limited amount of space, so they may be getting frustrated or bored and you might be getting some anger bites.

It's one of those things that you have to be patient with. Andrea promotes clicker training to keep their minds busy, large flight cages to allow more toys to interact, and species buddy to help keep them mentally stimulated.

Now there are some members here that have smaller cages and they have not seen any negative behaivor b/c the cage can travel with them from room to room. Their birds simply enjoy being with them.

My recommendation is to increase time available out of the cage. Make sure to rotate toys to help stimulate the mind. You can also try to clicker train. AND if possible, get a larger cage

[Sally]

I can tell you how we helped Chipper change from that problem. I bought a large cage. Parrotlets really need and love very large and wide cages. I saw Chipper change and I tell others about it because it was amazing. She is so much more happy go lucky and the sizes of the toys can be larger and perches can be long and rope, bending up and down and around. I call her cage a rolling carnival.

She has her favorite swing, (large one) and her tiki hut and coconut swing and other swings like her shaggy swing. I learned how wonderful it is for them to have lots of room to play and fly.

Chipper is out of her cage a lot and her door is almost always open. She goes home a lot because she loves it in her cage.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sally11/cagebywindowPICT0615.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sally11/Smtoys.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sally11/PICT0615388.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sally11/Tiki.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sally11/favswingPICT0541sm.jpg

[Cydney]

Catfish and Sally's advice is really good, and I agree that a larger cage would be better, but the problem may be fixed with more out of cage time, as Catfish mentioned. Finn's cage isn't huge, due to the fact that I live in an apartment, but it's full of toys that get rotated every two weeks or so. He'll get a bigger cage as soon as I can afford it and have the space for it. He is, however, out of his cage most of the time I'm home. Either just sitting on my shoulder and playing in my hair while I'm doing homework and studying or on the computer, or playing on top of his cage and flying between there, my bed and the desk. I've never had a problem with biting, or even nipping for that matter. Hope you get things figured out!

Sally - Loving the Chipper pictures, as always!

[Mustang99]

Is Petie getting 10-12 hours of sleep each night? Birds can get cranky like us humans if they don't get their sleep in a quiet setting. I also agree with the other members on the time out of the cage. If there is any way you can increase that, I think you'll see a change. You mention that he's in your craft room. when you're not in the room, is there a window nearby that he can get some natural light? Just some thoughts...good luck and welcome to the forum!

[ArtS]

How high is the cage off of the floor?

The reason I ask is that our girl MeMe started biting my wife Ellen but she does not bite me. When Ellen (who is shorter than me) got on a step stool to be taller near MeMe, the biting stopped. I know this sounds wacky but try a step stool, if it works then just lower your bird's cage a bit to see if it helps.

Regards,

Art S.

[Pado]

I agree that a larger cage won't hurt and more out of cage time - Seeing as Petie is in a separate room than the rest of the family may be an issue also.

How much time during the day do you actually spend in the Craft room with him?

[Kumiko]

I think your main problem here is the cage you have. A good, big cage is only $150 when you shop online. There is a online store that doesn't include shipping on a cage that is pretty big. It is ony this website somewhere.

Does anyone know what I am talking about? It is a very nice big cage.

[nar1122]

There are some places that have much lower costs... Oscar's cage only cost me $65 :

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/nar1122pets/Oscar-Parrotlet/Oscar13-NewCage.jpg
(you can see Oscar in the top on the left for a size comparison)

I got it at a bird show, from really nice people who have very nice cages...
you might want to go to a local bird show and see if there are any other special offers.

Here is where I got the cage from (their prices aren't as low online)
http://www.parrotmount.com/cage%20index.html

I don't know how big your cage is now, but some of these might be upgrades:

http://www.parrotmount.com/600h.html
http://www.parrotmount.com/600a.html

Good luck :)

[nar1122]

I would reccomend ensuring at least 12 hours of sleep at night, and much time out of the cage during the day, including interactivity with you.

Your bird may also be bored while in the cage. Here is a good e-book for parrot enrichment and activity:
http://onafricanwings.com/Parrot%20Enrichment%20and%20Activity%20Book.pdf

[Cydney]

Windy City has nice cages, and I don't believe they charge for shipping. I got my cage, which looks nearly identical to Nick's, from a bird fair as well. They usually have the best deals there.

[mcat614]

thanks everyone for the great advice. one question - do any of you have cats and if so do you keep your parrotlet out of the cage while they are in the room? I do have Petie out of his cage with them in the room when he is on my finger and they dont' see to care. however, i would be nervous to have him fly around with them in the room. when i do that i lock the cats out of the room and let Petie fly all around.

also i do have alot of toys in Peties cage.

thanks again.

[Kumiko]

I have a cat, and she is so interested in him, but everytime something happens to have Kiwi next to her, she is just scared or gets nipped on the nose.

Kiwi's cage is in the Living room with Sonnie (cockatiel- the cages are on opposite walls) Mattie sits and watches the birds' cages a bit, but ai alwasy "shu" her away. SHe has learned that you do not touch the birds, but as precaution I alwasy supervise whe nshe is in the room with the birds.

If you are concerned, you should take extra precaution to make sure they don't have any problems. Shutting the door when he is "out-and-about" is a good way to make sure nothing happens.
----------------------------------------

That is great that you have lots of toys, but a bigger space will most definetely eliminate the problem maybe. Anyway when getting a parrotlet, it is actually a necessity to have a big cage that we are showing you.

Good-luck!!

[mcat614]

everyone

we spend alot of time in the craft room when we get home from work so he is not alone when we are home. i was told not to leave petie out of the cage when we are not at home so during the day he is in his cage. also he gets at least 9-10 hours of sleep during the week and at least 12 on the weekends.

i will start to have petie out of his cage much more now and will look into getting him a bigger cage - although this cage was recommended at the Bird store where I bought him. i do like Oscar's cage.

again thank you everyone. this has been really helpful.

[nar1122]

I hope things get better upon your changes :)

[mcat614]

one more question - i was told at the bird store that you shouldn't let your parrotlet sit on your head because it will think it is dominant. that they should only sit on your shoulder. is this true? petie likes to sit on my head and play with my hair.

[nar1122]

They should not be allowed on your shoulder or head, or anything that makes them seem they are physically higher than you.

They will feel dominant.

I think I read before, never allow it if they are a biter, but if they don't bite, then it's okay...

Since yours bites, then do not allow him on your head or shoulder.

[Kumiko]

I wouldnt like it anyway if the parrotlet crapped on my head!! LOl

[Sally]

Chipper sits on my shoulder ALL the time. She will fly to my head, but likes my shoulder. If there is no problem, the dominant thing isn't a big deal. Chipper wants to be with me.

She is like Spidey girl! As you can see, she grabs my shirt and hangs on like a monkey! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sally11/hairsurfingPICT0977336.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sally11/browniebirdthree-1.jpg

[nar1122]

Very cute Sally! :):)


I think that if the bird is good, and doesn't bite, then it's okay to let it on your shoulder, etc.

[catfish]

I believe that the hight dominance was proven false. I could be wrong, but that is something to look into....

[nar1122]

I've never really researched it...just general conversation with people.
I will try and do some research. :D

[nar1122]

I read here that it has been proven untrue:

http://www.parrotchronicles.com/departments/height_behavior.htm

It's a pretty good article.

****If you want to do more research, just go to www.theperch.net/discussion and search for height dominance.

there are some discussions. I don't know if it allows guests to search though, unless you are a member :)

[catfish]

and here is the article I read.

http://www.naturalencounters.com/images/Publications&Presentations/Height_Dominance-Steve_Martin.pdf

So that's two sources. I don't always trust .coms, but with having multiple sources that say the same thing, that is one subject that can be trusted.

[nar1122]

Yea. I found many that are saying the same thing.
Of course though, some people are saying it is a controversial topic.

I don't really think it is... the experts are the ones who should be writing papers on it (like your link), not regular bird owners who only have experience with their pet; they are the ones who believe in the height dominance and think it is controversial.

[ArtS]

Nick & catfish,

Isn't Steve Martin a commedian? :D

On a more serious note, my wife seems to get more respect from our girl MeMe when she is on a stepstool - is this because of the percieved increase in size or because of her higher position?

Regards,

Art S.

PS. Nick, both articles seem to be written by Steve Martin

[catfish]

Maybe MeMe is like my Hpnotiq, an odd ball. It might be a size issue, but I've never had a problem with height dominance with my birds, even my aggressive quaker (crabby) doesn't have height dominace.

Maybe it's the sudden change in size that makes her be a little nicer. Like when the p'lets fluff up to make themselver bigger to get their point across. She may view her sudden size increase as her version of fluffing up. Who knows what these little ones think....

[nar1122]

Nick & catfish,

Isn't Steve Martin a commedian? :D

On a more serious note, my wife seems to get more respect from our girl MeMe when she is on a stepstool - is this because of the percieved increase in size or because of her higher position?

Regards,

Art S.

PS. Nick, both articles seem to be written by Steve Martin

LOL.

Ha! I didn't even notice they were both by Steve Martin (not the comedian-LOL)

Like catfish said, who knows what is going on. I would think that Meme thinks Ellen is using the "fluff up" defense.
But, who knows...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[AndreaFahy]

I think height dominance is a crock of you know what. If a trusting, respectful relationship is established those issues do not arise. It is when a person is disprespectful of their parrots' needs that heigh dominance seems to arise.

[mcat614]

hi everyone

i have purhased a lot of new toys for petie and have been keeping him out of the cage as much as i can. the strange thing about him is that he can sit on my hand or arm for 15 or 20 minutes getting petted or a head rub and he loves it. then out of no where he will start to bite me. its definitely getting harder and harder for him to "step up" when i put my hand in his cage. he always tries to bite. what i have been doing now is opening the cage and letting him come out on his own.

someone mentioned on another thread about giving him postive reinforcement for his negative behavior. i guess maybe when i yelp when he bites me is not a good thing but its hard not to. i try not to put him back in his cage when he gets like this because i don't want him to think that being put in his cage is punishment but it is hard not to put him back in. the alternative is to have him keep biting me.

i know i got a lot of good advice on things to change but what do you actually do when your parrotlet bites you? do you say "no" in a stern voice? do you move him to his cage or play area?

thanks again for your help

[nar1122]

Another thing I have been reading about on this and other forums is a sleeping cage.
What you do is have another (smaller) cage in a separate room, and you put the birds in that cage at night to sleep.
This can prevent cage aggression (biting when hand is in cage).
They will think of the sleeping cage as their nest, and the big, regular cage, as an all-day playground.
I don't know too much about this, so others might explain more...

[mcat614]

i just tried to take petie out of cage again and he attacked me. i couldn't even get him off my finger. he had such a hold on it. it's getting really bad now and i am at my wits end. he is getting extremely aggressive in his cage.

i was told by someone that i should cover his cage when he does something like that. i just did that now but not sure if that will help or worsen the problem.

birds are definitely not like dogs or cats who know not to bite the hand that feeds them.

[memmey]

Mcat I went back to your first post here and I noticed that you said that when he bites you give him a little shake. If you continued to use that method then that is the problem. Did you change your method and try some of the advice at the time.
I'm not saying you shook your p'let but if that was part of the no biting method you tried then I can bet that is where the problems lies.
Give us an idea of how you have handled it so far. I think your first post on this was last year..right?

he may feel threatened.

[mcat614]

I absolutely have never shaken petie. i read a few of the threads and some said to say NO firmly. others have said to blow lightly in his face. the bird store where i purchased him said to turn your back on him and that is what they do to each other. I usually let out a yelp when he bites but i have never shaken him.

like i have said previously, he is aggressive in his cage but gets excited when he sees me and can sit on my hand or finger for some time and then all of a sudden start biting.

i wonder if he feels threatened because the cats are in the room. however, i was assured by the bird store that many parrotlet owners have cats and the worker there even said his parrotlet sleeps on the cats. i never did that nor do i think that is very safe.

the way i have tried to handle it is to say NO or trying to calm him down by petting him on his head - his favorite thing.

[nar1122]

Maybe the problem is the cats in the room...??

He might be biting you to get you to go away to protect you, because he might think the cats are a danger....
Companions do that.

Some birds aren't afraid of other animals (cats). Stories of other birds really have nothing to do with your bird...all birds are different.

Also, notice what all the circumstances are when he bites, and when he is good. Think of all the possible factors.

Let us know.

[mcat614]

nick

i will document allt he circumstances but that is the confusing thing. i haven't been able to pinpoint any common circumstances. he can sit on my finger for quite a while and not bite at all. i have even taken him to my room and closed the door so the cats are not around but its the same thing.

he doesn't seem to be afraid of the cats. they are not aggressive with him either but they do go near his cage. if they get too close he does go to bite them. i actually think the cats are afraid of him.

i will continue to monitor and see if can come up with any commonalities.

[nar1122]

Okay. Sounds good...
I hope this leads us to something, because this seems a little odd if you are doing things right.

Have you consulted a Certified Avian Vet or Behaviorist Expert??

[nar1122]

Here is a link to an article about something similar, but about African Greys. This can relate to your case:
http://www.africangreys.com/articles/behavior/biting.htm

Depending on how old your parrotlet is, it might be testing the limits of the members of it's flock (you) to see who outranks who.

[Mustang99]

As I was waiting during my son's baseball practice this evening, I read an article around Parrotlet's going through their "terrible twos" anywhere between the age of 5-9 months in which they are working it big time to gain the upper wing! the article went on to say that this normally levels out when they turn a year. I will try to locate the article tonight but I have two boys both with paper routes and I'm sure they'll arrive any minute. Don't give up hope...I think a lot of people are taken back by the attitude of these tiny birds and they can pack a bite.

[mcat614]

i havent contacted a behaviorist yet but i am seriously thinking about it now. i will continue to read the articles that have been recommended to me as well as some other things that have been recommended. hopefully something will work.

mustang99 might be on to something. he is almost a year old and seems to be getting more aggressive.

one behavior thing i have noticed is if someone else puts their hand in his cage he flaps around, starts to chirp loudly and backs away from them. he doesn't do that with me. he tries to bite me. not all the time but that is his first reaction most of the time. if he lands on me then i can pet him for quite a while. plus he loves when i come in the room.

he is such a cute boy so it is very upsetting. will keep you posted.

one other question - does anyone have parrotlet who speaks?

[mcat614]

nick - just read the article. it was really enlightening. i have been practicing with petie now. he was most receptive. sometimes he would want to fly around and try to avoid my finger if he was on top of his cage. i think i will keep doing this exercise every day to see if he improves.

[nar1122]

one other question - does anyone have parrotlet who speaks?

Oscar does the wolf whistle, and says pretty bird. Over the past few months, it has gotten clearer, and better.
They usually start to take interest, and pursue the speaking ability at about 5-8 months.
I am glad the exercise might be working, and that you are trying it ;)

[Mustang99]

Late last night I wrote quite a bit and I must have been timed out...ugh. However, the article that Nick posted had information that was covered in the magazine I had. Also, it mentioned that while the bird is going through those "terrible twos", that they may also become territorial of their cage. It was advised to move toys around in the cage, possibly adding some new toys. That may help with aggressive behavior.

The one thing that was stressed was the fact that this is the time in a bird's life that is some important for the human flock to ride the waves and understand that this is a major developmental stage for the bird. This is the time when people who buy a bird and think it will be easy to care for, will become frustrated and think that the bird will always be this way and the bird ends up losing their home. When a new home and routine is brought onto a bird that is going through this stage, it becomes very stressful on the bird and therefore affect not only their mental state but also their physical health.

While they are determining where they fall in the pecking order, they have to learn that you are the leader, but the way in which that is accomplished is a huge factor. You should never yell or heaven forbid strike a bird (and I don't believe any of us would do that) just stating the direction -- the stern look as outlined in Nick's article posted is recommended.

Kiwi is 8 months old and has just started the lower the head when I want her to step up and she did exactly what was outlined that the grey did by biting. I sternly ordered for her to step up without raising my voice and she did comply. She is a sweetheart and I can see where she is trying to see how far she can push things.

I'll write more tomorrow as I think of things. Hope this may help.

I have learned so much from this tiny bird and you realize the trust and respect that comes with their care.

[Buddy's Mom]

Our Buddy bird didn't start talking until he was about a year old. We have been working with him quite a bit since we got him when he was about 3 months old. He says, "kiss kiss" very clearly, "buddy", "buddy bird", he does a little "trill" whistle when you sing him a song. About 2 months ago, we noticed when we started coming in the door from work, we always say, "hi Buddy" with enthuasium since we've missed him so much. Now, if we don't say it soon enough or if we walk down the hall away from him, you hear a very clear, "HI BUDDY" from his region of the room. It was so thrilling to see that he picked up on that.

He's working on saying, "pretty bird" and "hello", but he only works on words during the day when we're not home. We catch him mumbling and talking to himself on the weekend while we're downstairs and he's by himself. It's the MOST adorable thing!!

Here's a video of him learning how to talk. I had to sneak up on him since he stops once he sees me looking at him. You can hear him working on "buddy bird" Sorry it's sideways! Also, you have to turn the volume WAY up, it's hard to hear over the treadmill in the background.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee18/iualum00/th_DSCF3486.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee18/iualum00/?action=view&current=DSCF3486.flv)

[nar1122]

About the cage aggression:

It is true that rearranging toys, and perches, etc. will help reduce cage aggression.

Also, a sleeping cage can help reduce that too. The bird will think of the sleeping cage as their nest, and their regular cage as an all-day playground/playtime.
All you need is a medium size cage (about the size of a cage you would travel with) and put a toy or two, food water, and a few perches.
Put the bird in that cage at night, and cover them up.
Move them to their regular cage during the day.

Do you buy new toys often? Do you cycle toys??

[memmey]

Well Bitsey Jo was sitting on my arm tonight while I'm at the computer. She is trying to break my bracelet but I played the video of Buddy talking she stopped and listened..LOL Good job Buddy

[ArtS]

Nick,

Are these suggestions coming from personal experience or are you just summarizing various things you have read?

Art S.

[nar1122]

The toy rearrangement, and sleeping cage, is from personal experience.
Oscar never really got cage aggressive, but sometimes would always bite when I went to change his food/water and offer other things.

About a month or two ago, I started rearranging perches, and everything instead of just toys. Also, used their travel cage as a sleeping cage at night.
So far the effect has been great, and there have been no more problems.

I have also read that these things would help too.

[Amy]

My little cloud sounds like nearly the same problem. However, he is out of his cage almost all day everyday. He is bipolar or somthing. He will come over and snuggle up to my arm while I am on the computer, but other times if I go over to him (slowly like i learned from this forum), sometimes he will puff up his feathers and lower his head. I know not to try and bother him if he shows me this because it means I will get a nasty bite.

Cloud also loves to sit on my shoulder and coo for hours, or he likes to sit on my kitchen chairs and stare out the window and sing. Everything Ive read says that if they are let out of their cage and interacted with daily that they will bond. He HAS bonded but sometimes he just decides to be a grump.

My point is, (sorry for the rambling) these little birds have moods too, so it helped me to learn to watch for the signs, and I dont get bitten almost at all anymore.

[Mustang99]

Amy, I have learned to read the signs as well and the forum has helped me recognize the head down ploy! I read in one of my magazines that they need some time to themselves just to relax. Kiwi is out of her cage a lot as well each day and there are times I put her in her cage for some quiet time and I'll hear her singing and not yelling for me. After a bit, she will call out and she's ready to come back out. Just like us...there are times we just need people to leave us alone and give us our space. I've learned that she needs that space as well ... too funny!

[mcat614]

A Petie update:
i have tried the many suggestions I have read on the site. I have re-arranged many of Petie's toys and added new ones. I now keep the cats out of the room when he is out of his cage. I think he prefers it. He is just happy to have his cage door open and goes in and out without worry. He is still nipping but I now don't try to have him step up in his cage - as I was told he is very territorial.

he does step up on my finger outside of the cage but still nips at times. he doesn't like to do the ladder. if i try it he flies away. i try not to react when he nips (and it is difficult most of the time). lots of times he likes to sit on the side of his cage facing the wall. then he will fly around.

what do you folks think?

[Pado]

I've to come to the conclusion that Parrotlets are just nippy birds at times and we must just find ways to anticipate and avoid their bites when they are in that mood. Most all the babies are sweet and cuddly but as they mature they tend to nip here and there.

My male is extremely friendly when he wants to be but will and does become territorial in his cage and when he's in the "protect his girl" mode. I've come to accept this and take precautions to avoid their nips (and I must say I'm pretty good at it as I can't remember the last time I've been bitten :p Pat self on back :rolleyes: ).

Both my birds are very friendly all the time to all body parts void of fingers :D - But they both have their time when they want to bite fingers but as soon as I clench my fist they back off.

I think all the suggestions given are great as they "lessen" these outbursts but I don't really think much will cure it.

Given the amount of posts in regards to this I think it may be just the Parrotlet way - :)

[mcat614]

Pado

i think you are right. he gets very excited when he sees me but has a very strong will and mind of his own. he was much gentler as when he was a baby. i don't think he is upset or stressed so that is a good thing. i think it's just their way. he is constantly biting something - could there be an equivalent to teething as well for parrotlets?

thanks everyone for all the great posts.

[Pado]

I read and actually somebody posted on this site about "terrible two" syndrome in Parrots but I think Parrotlets go through this a bit earlier than two. My male did and has settled down 10 fold but still he gets his feathers ruffled from time to time :) but then he has his super sweet times - they're just Skitso (sp? - short for Schizophrenia) :p

[musicjan]

The worst part for me is when Bitsy nips my neck! We have found that usually when he does that, he's tired....even if he's had plenty of sleep. So we take him to him upstairs "sleep cage" for a nap. It usually works.

[mcat614]

last night my cat sitter came by and tried to get petie to step up on her finger while he was in his cage. i thought he would try to bite her but instead he fluttered all around and tried to avoid her finger. once he calmed down, i tried to get him to step up on my finger - and instead he came right over to me and bit me. the cat sitter thinks he is trying to show is dominance over me.

do you think that could be it?

[catfish]

Aggressive Behavior in Pet Birds
Atlantic Coast Veterinary Conference 2002
Kenneth Welle, DVM, Dipl ABVP
All Creatures Animal Hospital
Urbana, Illinois, USA

Biting is one of the most common and definitely the most serious behavior problem in any pet. Parrots are no exception. Psittacine aggression is one of the more serious of behavioral problems for pet bird owners. The strong jaws and hooked bill of parrots can inflict serious pain and do substantial damage to the owners. Aggression in parrots takes the form of biting or lunging at the object of their aggression. While an individual bird can have overlapping and interacting etiologies, it is helpful to categorize the problem in order to treat it. Aggressive behavior etiologies in pet birds include fear, dominance, territorial behavior, and possessive behavior. As in any other species, this type of behavior has several etiologies. (1) Diagnosis of any behavioral disorder is based upon the behavioral history. Specifically, the signalment, a description of the environment and social interactions, and a description of the aggression, the circumstances in which it occurs, and the owners reaction to the behavior are critical to the assessment of a biting bird.(2) This should be augmented with observation of the interactions between bird and owner.

Fear biting

Fear is one of the most common motivators for biting. A bird that is frightened by people is simply trying to defend him/herself. There does not appear to be any age or sex predilection. Wild caught birds are less common than in years past. Most of those remaining have had years to either reduce or confirm their fears of humans. Certain species are more likely to develop fear of people despite the fact that they have been raised around them. African grey parrots are well known for this problem.
These birds usually only bite when cornered or caught. They will not usually attack or chase someone. They may learn to attack rather than retreat when the cage door is opened, but they will generally try to get past the handler rather than defend the cage. They will not usually allow handling by anyone, although occasionally birds will be fearful of a particular person, gender, or a physical characteristic.

Treatment of this problem requires a lot of patience. Affected birds should be gradually desensitized to the presence of people. Once they accept human presence careful taming and handling can begin. In extreme cases, drugs such as tricyclic antidepressants can be used to facilitate the early stages of treatment. Correcting a fear biter is counterproductive. The biting behavior in this situation is a normal response. The situation is abnormal and this is what should be addressed.

Dominance aggression

Dominance aggression is a controversial classification. The term brings negative images of a adversarial relationship between birds and owners. Nothing could be further from the truth. Dominance hierarchies have developed in social species as a means by which conflicts can be resolved without overt violence. The hierarchies are maintained by means of verbal and non-verbal communication. Overt aggression will occur when the status of two individuals are in question.
Dominance aggression may occur in any species, but is particularly common in Amazons and macaws. It occurs more often in mature than in juvenile birds. Male birds may be affected more commonly, but the gender of many birds is undetermined. It seems to occur more commonly with birds belonging to people with small stature, with passive personalities, or with little experience with birds.

Biting may occur any time that the bird feels its authority being challenged, such as when the owner tries to get the bird off the shoulder, or put the bird in a cage, or remove the bird from the perch. Affected birds have often learned to manipulate the owner to their wishes. The owner's behavior may be as useful for a diagnosis as the bird's. They often will make excuses for the bird's behavior, take extraordinary measures to prevent upsetting the bird, or otherwise defer to the tantrums of the bird. These birds almost invariably have been removed from the carrier and are sitting on the shoulder of the owner.

Dominant aggressive birds have been patterned to use aggressive behavior to control the behavior of their owners, who have been patterned to comply. Both owner and bird may be resistant to changing the situation. After years of being bitten, the owner will be hesitant to be assertive with the biting bird. The bird will initially be a bit confused and will try to re-establish control. Aggression may get worse before it gets better. In some cases, the bird will benefit from placement in a home with a more assertive handler.

The wings should be trimmed to give the bird one less means of controlling situations. The bird should be put in a low cage, preferably on the floor. Macaws sometimes present a problem because their cages are often very tall. Clients with small stature should be advised to place a small step stool or bench in front of the cage and stand on this whenever they approach the cage. The bird should always be looking up at the owner. All handling should take place in neutral territory. If there are any household members that can safely handle the bird, they should bring the bird to the neutral area. If no one can safely handle the bird, the owners should be schooled on safe towel capture and restraint of the bird. Once in a neutral site, out of the sight of the cage, step-up exercises should be practiced. If the owner cannot keep the hand in front of the bird without withdrawing from the beak, then a perch should be used.

The shoulders should be considered off-limits. This can be challenging in its own right if the bird is accustomed to riding on the owner's shoulders. Hand position should be higher than the elbow so the bird does not just climb up onto the shoulder. If the bird jumps to the shoulder, the feet should be restrained. Placing a towel or other object on the shoulder may discourage the bird from jumping on the shoulder.

When bites occur, the bird should be repeated stepped up from hand to hand, a process known as "laddering."(3) This both provides a reprimand and establishes control. The beak should not be grabbed or thumped, as this can escalate the aggression. Birds should never be hit. Yelling or other types of drama can actually be entertaining for some birds, so the victim should always remain calm. The very effectiveness of the bite is what reinforces the behavior.

Drug therapy is not generally required for the treatment of dominance aggression. Prognosis is fair for the bird but guarded for the relationship between the owner and bird.

Territorial aggression

Territorial aggression is particularly common in certain species. Quaker parakeets are well known for this trait. Conures, miniature macaws, African grey parrots, and Amazon parrots are also prone to develop this problem. Breeding birds of all species tend to be territorial about their nest area and cage. In these birds, this behavior is considered desirable. Guarding of the nest territory is an important breeding cue. While the sex of many avian patients is unknown, it appears that territorial aggression is somewhat more common in males than in females.
Diagnostic criteria for territorial aggression are very simple. Necessary criteria are those that are required for this diagnosis to be made. For territorial aggression the aggressive behavior must occur when the bird is in or on its cage, playpen, or other living area.(4) If this is not the case, the aggression cannot be territorial aggression. Sufficient criteria are those which can distinguish this from all other diagnoses. In this case aggressive behavior must be limited to these areas. If the bird exhibits aggression in other circumstances, sufficient criteria for a diagnosis are not met.

Behavior modification for territorial aggression is multifaceted. In order to achieve the specific goals, general obedience training is essential. The step-up command should be automatic for the bird. This command is an important training tool. To avoid injury to the owner, the bird should be removed while servicing the cage. Owners should be schooled on atraumatic but secure towel restraint of the bird if necessary. Birds that will not leave the cage without biting should be caught and carried to a separate area. Some birds can be safely handled following voluntary exit from the cage. This will facilitate the other training measures.
Corrections can be given when bites occur but many of the appropriate reprimands will not be applicable. Repeated step-ups can be used, but only if the bird can be brought out of the cage within a few seconds of the bite. Towel restraint can be a useful method of gaining control, especially with smaller birds. Verbal reprimands can be effective as long as they are stern but calm. Dramatic responses like yelling are entertaining to birds and should be avoided. Striking the bird and beak grabbing are unacceptable corrections. They further excite the bird, induce fear, and can potentially injure the bird.

An attempt should be made to make the bird less dependent on the cage. This helps both in the prevention and treatment of territorial aggression. Birds that spend most or all of their time in one cage can become viciously aggressive about defending it.(5) In the wild, birds roost in the same area each night. During the day, they travel to other locations to forage, usually with their flock. A two-cage housing system helps provide a more natural system. A large, well-furnished cage or playpen should be used during the daytime to encourage activity. The cage should be rearranged frequently to promote adaptability in the bird. During the night, a smaller roosting cage with rather Spartan accommodations should be used. Each morning the bird can be transported to the larger cage and each evening to the roosting cage. If further measures are needed, the bird can be meal fed twice daily in another location.

The bird should be integrated into the family social unit. Portable perching stations allow the bird to sit close to the activity of the family. This, combined with consistent handling and training, provides the bird with the social skills needed to be well-adjusted pets. Regularly scheduled handling and training sessions are important for maintaining this socialization. The two-cage housing system described above forces owners to handle birds at least twice daily to transport them.

Psychotropic drugs are not generally indicated in the treatment of territorial aggression in birds. The chemical basis of aggression is unknown in birds. Additionally, the prognosis for treatment of territorial aggression with behavioral modification alone is favorable.

Possessive aggression

Parrots are prone to developing unhealthy pair bonds with one of their owners. While a bird may bond to more than one person, only one is chosen for a mate. However, if the chosen mate is the only one who ever handles the bird, the aggressive tendencies will be much worse. Also, aggression will be worse toward those the bird feels dominant to. Possessive aggression occurs most commonly in hand raised birds of larger parrot species. Amazon parrots, macaws, cockatoos, and Quaker parrots are all commonly affected. Male birds are most often affected. The behavior often begins or becomes more serious at sexual maturity or during breeding season.

The aggression will occur in situations where the birds favorite person in approached by someone else, especially a spouse. The aggression may be directed toward the rival or paradoxically displaced upon the favorite person. Occasionally, the aggression may be triggered by an inanimate object such as a telephone. Unlike most other types of aggression, possessive birds will often attack or chase their victims. They are often exceptionally cuddly at other times, at least toward the favorite person.
To help minimize possessive aggression, the bird should be socialized appropriately. The person, to whom the bird has pair bonded should work to develop a more platonic bond. Interactions should be more active and dynamic, avoiding cuddling and petting. The bird should not be allowed on the shoulder. This position encourages pair bonding. All members of the household should take the bird to novel, unfamiliar places so they can be seen as the familiar, comforting figure. The favored person should do all of the unpleasant tasks such as grooming. Favorite treats should be given only by non-favored people.
These attacks often involve the face of the victim. The attacking bird should be gently captured in a towel and placed in the cage or other controlled area. Owners should be taught how to safely and effectively towel-restrain these birds. While restrained, the bird can be verbally reprimanded in a stern but calm voice. Minor bites on the hand can be dealt with by laddering the bird.

In some cases, the aggressive behavior can be reduced with hormonal therapy. Leuprolide acetate can reduce the sexual hormones and thereby reduce the intensity of the aggressive during the initial phases of behavior modification. Orchiectomy can reduce aggressive in some cases.(6)

Discussion

Like any behavioral disorder, improvement will usually occur slowly and gradually. Owners should be advised to keep a journal of their bird's behavior. The frequency, severity, and nature of any occurrence of aggression should be logged. A reduction in the frequency or severity of aggression indicates that the treatment plan is working.

The success of behavior modification is improved when the cause of the behavior is determined. A diagnosis of territorial aggression can be easily made from a behavioral history. This problem is exceptionally common in certain species. Often affected birds will be banished to their cage, further aggravating the problem. When an integrated approach is used, this problem can be successfully treated and prevented in most cases.

References

1. Welle KR. Psittacine behavior. Proc Annu Conf. Assoc Avian Vet 1998:371-377.
2. Welle KR. Psittacine behavior handbook. Bedford TX: AAV Publication Office, 1999.
3. Wilson L. What to do with biters and screamers. Proc Annu Conf. AAV 1999:71-76.
4. Overall KL. Appendix F Terminology: necessary and sufficient conditions for behavioral diagnoses. In: Overall KL. Clinical behavioral medicine for small animals. St. Louis: Mosby 1997.
5. Athan MS. Developing Behavior Patterns.Guide to a well-behaved parrot. Hong Kong: Barron's 1993: 36-54.
6. Bennet RA. Reproductive surgery in birds. Proc North Am Vet Conf. 2002.

[catfish]

I absolutely agree with Laurie here - drop the diagnosis or assumption of "Dominance" here in its entirity. Too many constructed interpretations as to what the bird is feeling, as opposed to factual descriptions of true behaviors. That common mistake predisposes immensely for interventional procedures that are much more likely to faily.

Getting the bird into a setting where it is not fearful is logical, appropriate and immensely needed as a first step in managing the environmental anticedents. Fear is going to be a big, big, big component of most of the behaviors here, for sure.

Allow the bird in its cage to decide to be out of vision somehow, if desired. This can be a towell draped over a portion of the cage, a blinder of some sort affixed to the front, etc. A frightened prey animal does not like being "stared" at.

If / when physical restraint is needed, make sure that your techniques produce minimal fear, and that the bird is not being made worse during the process. Learned fear from restraint is a common iatrogenic problem in pet parrots - often having been learned at veterinary offices with the old "capture and restraint" techniques that still live out there in the big, bad and somewhat outdated world. These more appropriate and less traumatic techniques are what folks are going through in the handling / behavior labs we have done at AAV for the past 5 years.

Gloves - you should not need them. Move slowly, do not chase the bird, and at the most, cover your hand with a doubled over towel, and encourage / offer the bird to step up to you and step off again. No quick rush to the capture and the dirty deed that is planned, whatever it may be.

The fearful bird that is captured and bites successfully and then is freed learns absolutely the wrong things. Classical conditioning to the anticedents that preceeded the capture event - making the fear and the evasive maneuvers even worse next time. Operant conditioning after the bite succeedes - "apparently, this is the best way to get the message to those humans that I REALLY am fearful and want to be released" - so, the bird bites harder and faster next time. Not a good direction of learning, for sure.

Suggestions:
No Fear

- anything that creates the fearful-type responses you describe needs to identified and removed. These direct and indirect anticedents pose huge barriers to earning trust and training effectiveness
Small Approximations


- small steps towards an ultimate goal will carry you far. It may take you a few months and 14 small steps, but you CAN position your hand and yourself as a desirable interactive experience - one that even has value to the bird over other behavioral options.

Environmental Stability

-Not too high, not too low, out of the mainstream of activity but not isolated, other activities of a daily maintenance nature available that are worthy of pursuit, and the ability to choose to interact, to be seen or not to do any of those activities. Slow and steady wins the race.
When fear is involved, really seek out what may be functioning as a punisher and remove it from the equasion - ASAP. The negative aspects of punishment will often become increasing barriers to success and will elevate the probability of actually reducing the quality of the poor animal's life.

Laurie is right with those nutriberries - too big of a reward for real training, overall. One quick bite, two chews and a swallow - and then, attention is again directed back towards you (the trainer).
Make sure your diet is of a controlled calorie density, as opposed to a seed - high energy one. If it is inappropriate, get this fixed ASAP. This will decrease the energy that the bird has to burn, and will also dramatically enhanced the value of food items as a positive reinforcer or reward in your training efforts in the future.

.... don't know if it helps, but more info is always better....

[mcat614]

thanks catfish for that great article. i have tried the laddering with petie but he doesn't like it. he will step up once but will fly away and not ladder. i then try again and he steps up but when i try to ladder he flies away.

i will continue to try the laddering and be patient with him. i know he is attached to me and he is not doing this because he fears me or is mad at me.

[mcat614]

Allow the bird in its cage to decide to be out of vision somehow, if desired. This can be a towell draped over a portion of the cage, a blinder of some sort affixed to the front, etc. A frightened prey animal does not like being "stared" at.


catfish that is an interesting comment about draping. i wonder if i should cover/drap one side of the cage so the cats can't stare at him. it doesn't seem to bother him but he may feel he has to protect his territory. just a thought.

[catfish]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to drape some of his cage. My p'lets weren't "bothered" by my cats when I first brought them home, as in they don't flutter and try and escape. They would sit there and watch them, or move to the highest point possible and play around up there.

They could care less now. In fact they nip the cats if they happen to paw the cage, which is rare.

[Pado]

Catfish – again another riveting article: ;)

My thoughts on the article:

When training: The wings should be trimmed to give the bird one less means of controlling situations. I know a lot of people agree with this and recommend it. I’ve always disagreed with this – although it does work to make the “humans job easier” but it has a bad effect on the bird - read the article Sally posted on clipping and it explains why - Although a bit harder it still is possible to train a flighted bird with the same results.

The shoulders should be considered off-limits.Just an FYI - This statement usually is meant for the larger Parrot species and not for the Parrotlet.


Draping:
I agree and think draping (covering) over the cage is a good idea to do - so your birds become use to this. My birds sleep in a spare room and although not needed, I drape a white towel over the front of their cage – I do this to block the air conditioning from blowing on them but also to teach the birds not to fear the cloth covering their cage. I may need to do this when company is over and they cannot use one of the spare rooms. Daily I have my birds do the step-up onto a white towel and I also feed them on a white towel when they are out of their cage. I think it’s important for them not to fear the towel. I also will grasp them in the towel when playing with them so they do not fear this when at the vet’s office. When I grab them in a towel they think it’s a game. When playing I will throw a towel over them and they have to find their way out – they both think this is fun and will tunnel under the towel themselves.

Also in the article they talk about “Possessive aggression” this usually does not happen with tamed Parrotlets that are paired with a species appropriate mate. Although a male Parrotlet will protect his mate from humans at times- its not really aggressive behavior and they will not outright attack you. I had a female Senegal that would charge and attack anyone who came within a foot of me -she drew blood on many an occasion- It was sad because I didn't understand at the time the effect this had on her ( not to mention the person she was attacking) - I actually thought it was endearing. :(

Catfish I did find the comment about the “smaller roosting cage” very interesting – I currently use this method but have been thinking of moving my birds main cage into a different room and doing away with their sleeping cage – I recently went out to dinner after work and got home late – by the time I got home the birds had already gone to roost in their normal day cage – I felt bad disturbing them to move them to their sleeping cage so I could clean their cage etc – (I probably should have just left them) but I didn’t. Because of this article I’m rethinking that now.

I wonder if I should just keep moving them to a sleeping cage at night :confused:

[catfish]

meh, some of the article I agree with, some I don't. I think clipping has it's pros and cons, but I rather just have my bird fully flighted. For me, clipping should be a last resort. I just thought it could provide some food for thought since the p'let is still biting.

I am thinking of setting up sleeping cages actually for my quakers once Hpnotiq is out of her current cage. Her current cage would be a good sleep cage, as would another cage I have. I'm also thinking of turning their travel cages into their sleep cage at night.... I'm not sure yet, but I have time to think about it.

[mcat614]

petie doesn't seem bothered by the cats either and he too will try to nip them when they come near his cage. they don't really put their face near the cage anymore- i think they are scared of him. :) i just thought it might be a good idea not to have him see them so close to him. i will see how that works.

he does get covered at night but i don't have a separate sleeping cage for him.