Crop infection

[Mustang99]

Hello - I just registered today and have a question for all of you. I have a wonderful 8 month old Green Pacific Parrotlet who has an incredible personality and loves to spend most of her day on a shoulder or running around a desk. since she is on my shoulder a lot, I could hear noise from her throat. At one point, her crop was large and I knew that she had not eaten recently. She showed no other signs of illness. Very energetic, eats well, drink her water, runs around -- however, the noise was a concern and I took her to our avian vet. she had a yeast infection in her crop and was initially treated with Baytril and later with Nystatin. She cleared up beautifully for a month and I just took her back to the vet tonight and she was full of yeast again. She is on something a bit stronger and I wanted to reach out to everyone to see if anyone has had an issue like this with their Parrotlet. she is just the most adorable and loving little bird and I'm trying to figure out if it could be something food related that is slow to empty from her crop and therefore prompting the infection. I appreciate any advise.

[catfish]

What foods do you feed?

If cooked, how long does it stay in the cage?

Do you sanitize bowls?

Are the foods getting wet from water?

Doy you change food out every day?

sorry, just wanting more info....

[memmey]

Those are good questions...what does the vet say when you return with her and he sees that it is back. There has to be something that is causing it. I'm glad that you are seeing a vet, you don't want to lose her. Maybe start fresh with new bowls and perches. Andrea knows a cleaner that is safe to clean the cage with. She will post when she sees this.

[nar1122]

I think its called GSE or something...

[catfish]

She recommends oxyfresh gel, not sure about GSE.

[nar1122]

I remember seeing someone saying something about GSE. Im not even sure if thats what it's actually called.

I know for sure too that she reccomends that OxyFresh stuff.

[catfish]

Yeast are fungus and they do NOT like acidic places. If anything, take EVERYTHING you have and just spritz it w/ a mixture of vinegar, water, and lemon juice (for scent).

This will help kill off most bacteria and fungus. I like to do this every 3 days to once a week depending on how busy I am.

[Mustang99]

I'm quite diligent with the food. I make her Beak Appetit which I warm slightly and serve it with a piece of strawberry and somethings some flax seed. she will eat that in the morning and then I discard it after she has walked away from it. I have never left food in her cage for the fear of it going bad. Water and food bowls are always cleaned .. somethings I feel like I'm more attentive to Kiwi's food than my own children!

[Mustang99]

Excellent suggestion...thank you...my vet has advised me to give her apple cidar vinegar diluted in water (1 tblspn to 8 oz) one week on and then off a week. But I will definitely to the cage as well.

[nar1122]

Do you "skin" the strawberry as to ensure they aren't getting the seeds?

I think they (the seeds) are poisonous....??:confused::confused:

[catfish]

hmmm... I'm going to think for a bit. It might take me a little bit to rack my brain.

I'm a little ditzy right now... spent 5 hours in lab today and 2 hours in lecture... so i'm going to go check some notes I made and check w/ some friends on what they think.

Promise. I'm not ignoring you.

[Mustang99]

thank you...I'll look into it. I just want to get her off meds...I had researched this breed before getting her and continue to study them but I'm baffled.

[Mustang99]

I have not read about strawberry seeds being poisonous..good grief...no I have not skinned the strawberry. I ensure not to let her get to apple seeds or pits of other fruits. I will look into this since it's one of her favorites. thanks...

[Mustang99]

I have been overwhelmed with the responses so quickly and thankful for such support. Thank you! I will check in morning since I need to get a little green bird to bed. She is never up this late but we got back from the vet late and she needed to eat and get her medicine so it took a while to settle down. thanks for all your help...

[Mustang99]

thank you.. I have new perches ready which I will place tomorrow and I plan to take the cage apart and clean it although it is cleaned on a regular basis. I need to get ahead of this. I would be devastated if anything happened to her. She is incredible.

[catfish]

I would like to know how you prepare your beak apetit. How do you store it? Is it in a sealed container? Do you freeze? How long do you keep the container in the frige? what is it stored next to and under in your frige?

SOrry for so many questions. I'm just trying my best to rule out everything possible.

[nar1122]

Don't worry. She will be okay. She is in our prayers tonight.

Just keep your good attitude, and the initiative to continue to do research.


Good Luck :)

[Sally]

Welcome! I have nothing to add. I do hope your bird will be well for good very soon!

Nick, I have not heard that about strawberries. Chipper loves the seeds. I know apple seeds are poisonous.

[Mustang99]

Thanks Nick -- I'm always observing her and pick up on the throat immediately. Thanks for the prayers..I will take all the wonderful suggestions and get moving with them. I do look forward to hopefully supplying suggestions/advice down the road. Thanks again!

[catfish]

well... yeast will grow in dark, damp places. I think if you acidify the environment, follow proper HACCP with your beak apetit, and continue to give the meds, you should get a healthy bird.

[Mustang99]

I appreciate your questions...I cook the beak appetit according to the package some are a bit different. but Kiwi's favorite is the carribean crunch. I boil water, add the mixture and simmer for 20 minutes. I cool just slightly and put in a sealed tupperware in the fridge (must be used in 4-5 days if stored in fridge, longer if frozen). I ensure to use it within 4 days since I don't like to freeze anything. When I give her a serving, I microwave it for just 5-6 seconds to take the chill off. I then ensure it is slightly warm and serve it with some fruit, brocoli or whatever is available at that time.

[Mustang99]

thanks everyone...I'll be back on tomorrow...need to get the little girl to bed...

[nar1122]

Welcome! I have nothing to add. I do hope your bird will be well for good very soon!

Nick, I have not heard that about strawberries. Chipper loves the seeds. I know apple seeds are poisonous.

Like I said, I wasn't sure.

Im going to do some quick research on it.

[catfish]

food looks to be done correctly, storage is good. . .(freezing would be fine, I do it, the only thing is some ice crystal formation... but it's more a personal decision ;) *not trying to be rude, sorry if I sound like I am*)

The only thing I can think of is that it's an infection that originated from an unknown reason that has yet to be fully treated.

Sanitize the cage. You can do this with one cap full of bleach in a 1-2 gallon bucket. Wipe down the cage and rinse. Allow it to dry. (I do this once a month). OR you can wash down the cage and use the oxyfresh gel.

Spritz EVERYTHING down w/ the vinegar/water mixture to acidify the cage and toys.

The way you are preparing food sounds good. Just be careful of cross contamination... but that is more bacterial, very unlikely to be a cause of yeast infection.

I can't think of a reason as to where your baby got the infection, but I'll continue to ponder it and I'm sure others will give input. Andrea will be here to give advice sometime w/in the next 24 hrs I'm sure.

Good night! Sending healing vibes to your baby! Keep up the good care and I'm sure she will get better~~

[AndreaFahy]

Those are good questions...what does the vet say when you return with her and he sees that it is back. There has to be something that is causing it. I'm glad that you are seeing a vet, you don't want to lose her. Maybe start fresh with new bowls and perches. Andrea knows a cleaner that is safe to clean the cage with. She will post when she sees this.

Oxyfresh cleansing gele is the cleaner my avian vet suggests

Raw, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar is good to have on hand - handy for yeast, good digestion, anti-bacterial, etc. I have it on my site: http://www.bonsaibirds.com/htm/beansgrainsetc.htm

Meds can be so harsh on these little guys.

Is the vet avian board certified? If not, you may want to consider finding one. What is your location?

[AndreaFahy]

I don't use GSE, it is a synthetic compound that is not allowed in organic foods - there for I don't want to use it.

(one article: http://www.talkparrotlets.com/showthread.php?p=7836#post7836)

[AndreaFahy]

You don't need to skin the strawberries. BUT, in the interim, cut down on the sweets - no fruit no pellets or bread (starches that yeasts grow on nicely). Load them up with bird bene Bac.

If you feed pellets, know that they are broken up starch so yeasts can quite easily grow in that too.

Sometimes these things alone will take care of it.

Are the droppings "foamy"? that woudl also be as sign of yeast.

[catfish]

The yeast would need to have a moist place to grow though...

so, make sure that the bag of pellets (if used) is tightly sealed, avoiding any moisture from getting into the bag....

Hmmm. I wonder how humid your area is? So many possibilities

[Mustang99]

Thanks for the welcome Sally...Chipper is gorgeous!

[Mustang99]

thank you...I just soaked the cage about a week ago but plan to do it again tomorrow and spritz it with vinegar/water. I can't thank everyone enough for the postive support .. I sure don't feel alone with this one.

[catfish]

Whoops~ how rude! I forgot to say welcome too. so preoccupied with trying to help!

Well better late then never~

WELCOME and enjoy the board. You should enjoy.

[Mustang99]

it has been humid around here lately (can't wait for Fall). What are your thoughts with storing seed in the fridge. I used to but read somewhere not to.

[AndreaFahy]

We dealt with a yeast infection recently, just one bird. It would not resolve with medical measures. It resolved after a few days of no pellets, no grains, etc, etc. Heavily fed fresh organic vegetables, a big big variety, used the ACV in the water and so forth. The parrotlet needs a break from the beak appetit and fruit to get past this infection. The yeast will grow in the crop and digestive tract after being consumed, even if all sanitary measures are being followed.

[AndreaFahy]

Also, (not that I want to encourage the competition *L*) but you really ought to acquire Bene Bac: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=6015&Ntt=bene%20bac&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1

Aids digestion with beneficial bacteria

Use after periods of environmental or nutritional changes

Recommended for a variety of digestive upsets. Contains 5 species of beneficial bacteria, which are found in normal, healthy digestive tracts - over 20 million colony forming units or Dried Lactobacillus casei (avian strain) alone. Your bird needs these, especially under stress. Useful for diet changes, traveling, or breeding. Available in easy-dose gel syringe or economical powder. Can also be used on reptiles.

Use During Times of: hand feeding, weaning, diet changes, after worming, traveling, breeding, post antibiotic therapy, growing phase, and poor food consumption.

Main Ingredient: Dried Lactobacillus Fermentation.

Suggested Gel Use: For general maintenance, every other week administer 1 gram for large species such as Amazons, Macaws, and Cockatoos, and 1/2 gram for small or medium species, such as Cockatiels, Parakeets, and Lovebirds.

Suggested Powder Use: For weekly general maintenance, use 1/8 teaspoon for birds 1 lb. or less, and 1/8 teaspoon for every pound thereafter, up to a maximum of 1 teaspoon per treatment. Feed by top dressing on moistened or oiled dry food or fresh fruit and vegetables.

[Mustang99]

Hi Andrea...yes, my vet is board certified and I'm very pleased with her. She's cautious but doesn't allow something to get ahead of us. I will use the bene bac and cut out the fruit and bread has been offered on a limited basis but I will stop it for a while and watch. I did notice just recently the foaming droppings -- not all the time but I did notice that. Great suggestions .. thank you!

[Mustang99]

Oh heavens .. not rude at all...the help I have received tonight and in rapid form is more than I ever expected! :)

[Mustang99]

I will start this tomorrow.. I appreciate this so much!

[AndreaFahy]

thank you...I just soaked the cage about a week ago but plan to do it again tomorrow and spritz it with vinegar/water. I can't thank everyone enough for the postive support .. I sure don't feel alone with this one.

This shouldn't make a huge difference, as the infection is already in the bird - but do you clean cage / change substrate or papers or whatever daily?

[catfish]

Thank Andrea~ that's good info for all of us.

[AndreaFahy]

Hi Andrea...yes, my vet is board certified and I'm very pleased with her. She's cautious but doesn't allow something to get ahead of us. I will use the bene bac and cut out the fruit and bread has been offered on a limited basis but I will stop it for a while and watch. I did notice just recently the foaming droppings -- not all the time but I did notice that. Great suggestions .. thank you!

Fantastic! I am so pleased that you have a great vet to work with :) I think in good health the fruit and starches are great to offer more than on a limited basis, but you def. want to get a hold on this!

for others, a yeast infection can be smelled in the droppings - it is a gross, sweet smell. I first learned this smell when new to parrots, I worked with a terrible breeder - all of the cockatiels always had yeast infections, all of the babies, etc. She would pump them with Nystatin and Baytril and never actually handle the situation properly. And even worse, she acted like this was normal and acceptable in parrot breeding.... ugh...

[Mustang99]

I have bene bac from the vet and did see that I can also order it from Drs. Foster and Smith. I truly feel now that she has had too much beak appetit and fresh fruit and will adjust her diet and watch. Thank you

[catfish]

This shouldn't make a huge difference, as the infection is already in the bird - but do you clean cage / change substrate or papers or whatever daily?

True, but by keeping the cage clean it will help keep the bird healthier. Sicne she is already battling one infection, it helps prevent another infection from springing up (hopefully)

[AndreaFahy]

Yes it will :)

[Mustang99]

absolutely, I keep up with that daily and clean the grid at the bottom of the cage. the water dish is normally changed a few times daily as well.

[nar1122]

I don't use GSE, it is a synthetic compound that is not allowed in organic foods - there for I don't want to use it.

(one article: http://www.talkparrotlets.com/showthread.php?p=7836#post7836)

Okay. I wasn't sure (like I said). I just wanted to put the thought out there. ;)

You don't need to skin the strawberries.

I wasn't sure about this either. I just read somewhere that all seeds and pits of fruits should be avoided.

[AndreaFahy]

Well, along those lines of avoiding things - conventionally grown foods should be avoided as well - the pesticides are ridiculous and very unhealthy for the birds, ourselves and the environment.

[Sally]

I am a bit spooked by the crop infection we are talking about.

I would like to know all I can to not get it.

I serve Chipper's various foods twice a day and take all out at night. I wash all dishes. I change her paper towels on the bottom of the cage. Cage bars are clean. Water clean and changed a least once a day. She also has her "bathtub" on the top.

I would also think that a healthy, varied diet and sleep would be good for health overall.

Anything else to make sure I do? Does this happen often?

Mustang, I do hope your birdie heals soon! :)

[AndreaFahy]

Honestly, I am not quite sure why it happens sometimes. I know our sanitary conditions and feeding practices are top notch, yet it happened to one of our macaws this summer. Just do the best you can in everything, and hope to avoid it. Like with humans, you can practice preventative measures for so many things, but so often can still catch colds, etc.

[catfish]

I try to follow HACCP as much as I can... it's hard to, but even if you try you are doing better than most people.

What is HACCP?

HACCP involves seven principles:

Analyze hazards. Potential hazards associated with a food and measures to control those hazards are identified. The hazard could be biological, such as a microbe; chemical, such as a toxin; or physical, such as ground glass or metal fragments.
Identify critical control points. These are points in a food's production--from its raw state through processing and shipping to consumption by the consumer--at which the potential hazard can be controlled or eliminated. Examples are cooking, cooling, packaging, and metal detection.
Establish preventive measures with critical limits for each control point. For a cooked food, for example, this might include setting the minimum cooking temperature and time required to ensure the elimination of any harmful microbes.
Establish procedures to monitor the critical control points. Such procedures might include determining how and by whom cooking time and temperature should be monitored.
Establish corrective actions to be taken when monitoring shows that a critical limit has not been met--for example, reprocessing or disposing of food if the minimum cooking temperature is not met.
Establish procedures to verify that the system is working properly--for example, testing time-and-temperature recording devices to verify that a cooking unit is working properly.
Establish effective recordkeeping to document the HACCP system. This would include records of hazards and their control methods, the monitoring of safety requirements and action taken to correct potential problems. Each of these principles must be backed by sound scientific knowledge: for example, published microbiological studies on time and temperature factors for controlling foodborne pathogens.Sorry I have had this drilled into my head now for a couple of years... it drives my partner and my family CRAZY.

I have books on all the stuff.... but this site is good for a bit of info http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/haccp.html

[catfish]

HACCP was created for nasa by pillsbury (spelling?) to prevent food borne illness in space, so far it has worked...

If it is required for humans, than why not animals? And you would be surprised how many people have food borne illnesses and never know it.

[AndreaFahy]

Valid point, and one that I aim to live by. Whey provide foods, etc. for my pets that are not approved for human consumption? This extends to other areas of their lives - they deserve high standards as well.

[nar1122]

This is a thread that I asked about the strawberries on another forum:

http://www.theperch.net/discussion/showthread.php?p=289032&posted=1#post289032

[AndreaFahy]

My points exactly. And organic should really be considered for more than just strawberries. And not just for the birds, but for the humans as well. Our bodies were not made to cope with constant chemicals going through us.

[catfish]

hense Andrea stating Organic.

[Mustang99]

The droppings have had no odor, I detect it through hearing the fluid. My goal is to get away from meds and manage it with carefully watching Kiwi's diet. As I gain success and get my little one turned around, I will share the info with my vet to ensure that she passes it along to others who may be facing the same issue. She is very open to feedback and I know she would share the info since she likes the route of working around meds if at all possible.

[Mustang99]

Nick -- thank you for inquiring on my behalf, that was very gracious of you and I hope to return the favor with being able to assist with a bird question in the future! I do appreciate the feedback on strawberries and did not realize that. Here it's her absolute favorite and I will refrain from getting them unless I go organic...thanks so much!

[Mustang99]

Hi Sally -- I'm worried about the reoccurence of the crop infection but after receiving so many great suggestions and guidance, I'm ready to take a new approach and hopefully this will be the last round of meds for Kiwi. I clean her cage regularly, change the paper paper daily and water is freshened throughout the day. She only has a dish of seed in the cage and eats her other meals outside of the cage to avoid any food being flung onto the bars. Good luck with continued health with Chipper!

[Sally]

Thanks! I have had her for over a year and a half. I am so blessed that she is fine. When birds get ill, I try to make sure I am doing all I can to keep her doing well.

I hope your birdie gets well and stays well soon. I know you are doing everything you can. It is not easy. I just cleaned LOTS of toys this morning. :)

[Mustang99]

Hi Sally -- Kiwi is running around my desk as I try to get work completed...chirping away...she is a doll. It sounds like Chipper is a strong healthy bird...I'm so happy about that. Keep doing what you're doing since it is definitely working. Can you share what you feed Chipper during the course of a regular day. I really want to ensure that I avoid foods that could be the culprit. Thanks to Nick for the strawberry link which was extremely helpful. Thank you..Debbie

[Pado]

Wow Mustang99 what an ordeal you are having. I hope it can be figured out soon - you can tell you love your little girl and are doing everything to help her. At least she is still running around that is a good sign for sure :)
Welcome to the site, I'm glad you found us.

[Pado]

General Note: All this talk about sterilization and disinfecting Good Grief :D keep in mind all, some bacteria is good and necessary - we must not eradicate these while over cleaning and disinfecting - our birds need to keep their own immune systems working and need some bacteria to do so.

I understand the need for cleaning and disinfecting (I myself tend to be on the clean side) but understand too much of a good thing can be bad onto itself ;)

(BTW this is not in response to Mustang99's situation)

[nar1122]

General Note: All this talk about sterilization and disinfecting Good Grief :D keep in mind all, some bacteria is good and necessary - we must not eradicate these while over cleaning and disinfecting - our birds need to keep their own immune systems working and need some bacteria to do so.

I understand the need for cleaning and disinfecting (I myself tend to be on the clean side) but understand too much of a good thing can be bad onto itself ;)

(BTW this is not in response to Mustang99's situation)


Yea. I also think we should keep this in mind. Just like humans... some people are extreme germ freaks, and get colds very often. They wonder why...it's because there body has never had a chance to build it's immunities to that particular bacteria.

I also tend to stay on the clean side.
:)

[catfish]

LOL. It's out of habbit for me. Between working for a vet hospital with critical animals and going to school tbe a dietitian... sanitation is really a major aspect of my life.

My only concern with her bird is that it's immune system is already trying to deal with the yeast infection. It's just to help keep her from getting worse.

[catfish]

I also DO agree that bacteria help to keep a bird healthier, just thought I would throw that out there

[Sally]

I think cleaning is good, I don't overdo it though. I think there are ALWAYS germs no matter what you do. You can just keep the numbers down.

Chipper had a BALL on my shoulder as I was cleaning her toys today!

Mustang, I give Chipper a wide variety of foods. I do the same for my little dog. I homecook for both.

She gets her strawberry and blackberries daily. Different Beak Apetit dinners, pastas and brown rice- I add littles veggie to them. I give her celery and she does a squeal for that! She gets greens, brocoli, and a "cookie" called Teil Cookie with her pellets, and seed etc in it. She rarely eats pellets or seed otherwise. Just prefers fresh food. She loves millet.

She loves to snack on a walnut, bell peppers with the seeds inside, birdie breads and muffins with veggies or fruit. She likes apples and carrots. BIG pieces.

If we have pasta, she can have some. She loves oatmeal, plain. Popcorn for birds too. I give her many things everyday, twice a day. It is like a buffet. Some days she doesn't want carrot and she will eat a lot of other things. Every day is different.

I weigh her every week or two. She is always 32 grams. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sally11/MessybeaksPICT0563450.jpg

[Elyse]

Hey, can we get some pictures of what this looks like?
Thanks!

Good luck, Mustang! Love to Kiwi!!
(Welcome, hello, hugs, get wells, all of the above and more!)

[Mustang99]

Thanks for the welcome! the scary point is if I didn't hear the fluid from her throat, I would have no idea that she wasn't feeling well. But the fact that she's nestled on my shoulder while I work helps me keep on top of it. I hope the current meds will be her last and I can keep her well.

[Mustang99]

Thanks Sally -- so much of what you feed Chipper is what I do for Kiwi so I will just carefully watch the little girl and see what happens. I cleaned her cage thoroughly yesterday and put in some new toys which she eagerly explored...too funny.

[Elly]

Get well soon Kiwi! Mustang, it's good to hear that she's exploring her new toys! ;)

[Mustang99]

thank you! I revamped the whole cage and she just loves to investigate. I'll have to post a pic as soon as I can figure it out!