Moulting?

[Elyse]

Kismet has been losing feathers for a little while now :( (About 3 or 4 weeks)

I've read that at about a year and a 3 or 4 months (which is his exact age) he should go through a major moult. Just want to check, though.

He doesn't yank them out, just preens, fluffs and *poof* 4 small feathers are floating around him. You can't see skin, absolutely no blood, no sign of mites, and he isn't pulling out any long feathers, just the ones about his torso (front and some back). He's a bit crankier than usual, which I've read, but by no means is he a pill - still mostly sweet, chirps a bunch, and is fairly active! (He is cooing in my gigantic, curly hair right now.)

I bought him some special moult blend seeds that he eats along with his Nutri Berries (vet recommended at his first checkup), extra Birdie Bread (for protein), and he gets granola cereal, cantaloupe, mango or Nutri Berries Popcorn (which he still snubs) for treats. I didn't want to spike his water with vitamins because I feared he would snub it.

So: moult, or no? Should I alter his diet?

[Plato&Mya]

WOW, that last picture looks like he is plucking??!! My birds never molted that way... hmm. Looks suspicious.
He is a cutie, though!

[Sally]

Looks like he is plucking to me also.

[Kumiko]

Kiwi is hitting his molting stage right now. His feathers look nothing like that. It is his 2 week in his month of molting.

I say, it is plucking. :(

[nar1122]

i have no idea WHAT that is (pic 4) but it would scare me if it was my bird!!:eek::eek::eek::eek:
so for future reference, what is the problem and solution here?
lol
:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[catfish]

Plucking can be a number of things. It could be a health problem (I remember someone, whether it was a person or forum that said their bird was plucking due to a kidney infection), nutritional problem, bordem, too small a cage, etc.

It would be best to go to the vet and have blood work done. Make sure there is a good diet being provided. . . toys cycled and a large enough cage to provide some selection. I provide shreadable toys for mine to preen and chew through which keeps him busy.

There are just so many reasons....

[Elyse]

I took him to the vet in May (pre-"plucking")and had a Gram stain plus full exam and everything checked out a-okay.

His behavior really hasn't changed since I brought him home - except the plucking - and I've always felt that he's been an avid groomer, but I've never had a parrotlet before (just budgies).

Kismet isn't really a toy toucher. He's certainly got plenty, homemade and store bought, but he much prefers to hang out on top of his cage and sing or ride our shoulders all day. His cage isn't the largest, but he's hardly in it, except eating and sleeping, so I feel that it's an okay size.

I've attached a picture with his current toy setup:

I've also bought this cage (http://www.amazon.com/Brand-Aviary-Breeding-Cages-30x18x18-2474blk/dp/B0002A6V4W/ref=sr_1_9/105-2334473-3993243?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1186584583&sr=1-9) and had transferred him to it, but my mother thought the size was too large and bulky and asked that I switch him back. (She babysits him and I thought it best to follow her wishes).

He's alone sometimes during the day, but mostly I or my mother are home (his main playmates) or my sister or father (they fuss with him, but mainly for novelty's sake).

I think he gets enough sleep, usually 10, sometimes 12 hours (I read that during moult he should get more sleep).

Should I actively discourage the preening?
Should I get him a buddy? Parrotlet or different breed? I've lost touch with the breeder...I'll try to find her today.
I'm calling the vet!! :(

[Elyse]

I realized I forgot to post the current cage picture, attached here.

I just called the vet and made an appointment for tomorrow morning (8/9) at 9am.
I'll keep everyone posted.

I'm so upset!!

[nar1122]

the cage he or she (sorry I forgot if you mentioned) is in, is better than the first picture.
I think it could use maybe one or two more toys, which might not make a difference, but oscar who is just about 5 months old loves all his toys, but he LOVES new ones, and he can defiantely tell which ones are new.
Here is a picture of his cage:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j185/nar1122/100_1212.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j185/nar1122/100_1213.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j185/nar1122/100_1214.jpg


he has lots of different toys, and slinkies to hang from and bounce on.


so maybe if you get him something "unusual" that he has nothing like, and give it to him, and it might give him something to do other than pluck.
I dont know if it will work, because I dont have experience with moulting, because oscar is just starting his first molt ever (5 months)

[Pado]

Elyse - Good luck at the Vet and be sure to post his findings ;)

[Elyse]

He's just not terribly interested in his toys -- I took a bunch of them out because they're often untouched. If I load his cage, he sits in a corner and stares at them all with large eyes like they're going to swallow them :rolleyes:.

I'm actively looking for a friend for him - adoption hopefully - just in case the vet suggests a companion.

[nar1122]

oh. My bad. sorry
Umm, Im looking for a companion for mine too. So anything you learn (like tips, etc) let me know ! ;)
Im not looking for one because hes necessarilly bored, but I work for a little over 10 hours during the week, and am going places on the weekends. So hes not bored, but hes still young, and after a few years or even less, I dont want him to ever become bored, so im gonna get him a little girlfriend:o:o

[Elyse]

OOOoooOOOOohh! ;)

I haven't found any adoptable-s near me, and I'm not at all educated on how to introduce a new bird (except quarantine/vet check).
Anyway, that's not first on the list.

I've just had an epiphany. We're still going to the vet tomorrow morning, but I think I may have narrowed the problem down:

I've been reading all morning about plucking/picking and hormones and zinc poisoning and parasites and Psittacine Beak which has me close to tears. I just realized that I haven't touched my breakfast yet - and then it dawned on me. I'm freaking out about all these rare diseases and poisons when it could be as simple as diet.

Musicjan gave me a recipe for birdy bread (which Kismet loves) and I cooked the first batch a little before the plucking began. I didn't follow the recipe to the t, but it doesn't matter: what if he has a gluten allergy? Or an allergy to anything I put in there? Edamame? Beans? Corn? Carrots? Corn meal? Broccoli? Egg shell? Egg?
How do I know about an allergy like that?

Needless to say, I've taken all his treats and food out of his cage except for the ones I know he's not allergic to (the seeds his breeder fed him, Nutri Berries, millet, and the granola cereal he loves.)

ACK!

[Pado]

Elyse - Thats great you are being so pro-active and doing all that research. You never know, it could be something as simple as the change in his diet you discovered. Hopefully your Vet can shed some more light on the situation for you.

Read Arts thread on Sparky - he and his wife have done everything humanly possible in regards to Sparky's plucking - sometimes this is a tricky issue but Arts outlook and realistic approach may bring you some peace of mind.

Here's one - there are others if you do a search - http://www.talkparrotlets.com/showthread.php?t=596

[Elyse]

Whew! That took me forever to read :p
But I came away with this, from Cindy: "Food. Sweet potatoes I'd stop immediately they've been implicated in pluckers."

Sweet potatoes were definitely in the birdy bread. That doesn't mean causation, just correlation.

Kismet has eaten since I changed his food and just took a quick nap. I just saw a feather go flying so he's awake :rolleyes:. I have no idea how long it will take for an allergy to completely go through his system. A question for the vet.

Art S is hilarious! I can't imagine being so good humored during such trauma - how about a Sparky update? Perhaps the gray parrotlets can have an annual get together to celebrate their individuality.

I'm going to do some housework, etc., but I'll keep checking back today. Thanks for all the advice!

[Pado]

Art S is hilarious! I can't imagine being so good humored during such trauma - how about a Sparky update? Perhaps the gray parrotlets can have an annual get together to celebrate their individuality.

:D :D :D you're hilarious too ! :D :D that was good !

[Sally]

Chipper eats Sweet potatoes all the time. I think each bird is different. You have to meet all needs and then hope they are happy.

[Elyse]

Vet Update!!!

(It's hard to drive a stick shift and keep a hand on a bird cage all the way to the vet - tomorrow I'll be learning how to juggle flaming chain saws!)

The culprit: diet.
Gram stain came out fine, but it's suspected that he has a fruit or sweet potato allergy. I've changed his food (from the Nutri Berry fruit to the regular) and I must take out all unknowns in his diet.
So basically he's on Nutri Berries, Millet, and granola cereal until this is worked out of his system.

It could take up to 3 months for diet change to show results.
Until then, I'm supposed to discourage his plucking gently.

The vet fitted Kismet with an Elizabethan collar (pictures soon!) which he hates. He's been gnawing on it since I returned from the vet, falling off his perches, or lying down and sulking on the floor of his cage.

I'm worried that that's all he'll do, that he's going to become an angry bird, that he won't eat (which is an even larger danger). I have to take it off tonight because I'll be going on a short family trip to Florida this weekend (believe me, I don't want to go!) but I think I'm going to take it off early. In fact, right after I take a picture.

It's incredible how much diet plays into our lives! They really are coal mine canaries. I'm terribly upset and mad at myself for putting him through this. I was supposed to take care of him and I let him down. He could eventually have a serious issue with plucking and never break the habit (though the vet said unlikely since it was caught early). I was supposed to be his Mommy and take good care of him and I didn't.

I'm really glad Rebecca and Kiwi started a thread about what we feed our parrotlets. They're our gift.

[nar1122]

Don't feel bad! You didn't not take care of him.:eek::eek:
You didn't know he had an allergy. So actually you did take care of him by taking him to the vet! Most people wouldn't even do that until the bird is half-dead laying on it's back!!

[Elyse]

I feel so bad :(
I can't imagine being that itchy all over my body.

[nar1122]

It's not even close to being your fault! You should feel sypmathy for him, but not guilt. Defiantely not.;););)

[Elyse]

:)
I'm working on it.

Millet distracts him from itching - I hope he never gets full!

[Pado]

Hopefully thats it - I'm sure you'll know soon enough. We'll keep our fingers crossed it is. The collar sounds horrible for such a little bird - poor guy. But as your vet said you found this early so thats a good thing.

[Sally]

My little dog has allergies. She sees a dermatologist vet. I give her an allergy shot once a week. I also home cook for her. She is all better now!!!

She is sensitive to Chicken and grains. Processed dog food didn't do her any good, even premium brands.

Your birdie is sensitive to things that are good for most of us and our birds. Wasn't your fault at all. So glad you found out what was wrong.

I hope all will be well very soon. Are baths helping?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sally11/mistypets.jpg

[Elyse]

Kismet likes to be misted with a sprayer on his time (:rolleyes:) which is usually when he gets into his water dish every other morning. It does seem to help, though, so I'm going to try to be extra attentive about when he's in the mood.

Sally, my mother's cat has very sensitive kidneys and has to be kept on a special diet. He had major surgery July to remove a ton of stones from his kidneys and ureters - we thought he'd be functioning on just one kidney but he has made a full recovery! He's a new cat, really. We vacillated on making his own food, but the kibbles and wet tuna the vet recommended (we also supplement with potassium citrate granules - this all sounds like blahblah to me :confused:) work 100% so we haven't got a reason to change it. Happy kitty! Glad your pup is all better, too!!!

Thanks for all the support, everyone! :)
Kismet has been so good today about not itching! I've tried to keep him entertained and distracted, extra cuddles and rubs; he's all set for another much needed nap.
I'm positive we're on the right road now! :)

[nar1122]

Good for you! Im so glad to hear that! And so is everybody else! (probably...hopefully! :rolleyes::rolleyes:) lol
Hope he stays on this track!

[Pado]

Great news Elyse - now where's that picture :D :D

[Elyse]

Heeheeheee... You'll love it -- although he looks miserable!

I inspected the collar this evening while showing it to my family and he did some serious damage to it! He actually chewed away the plastic so that if I had left it on, it may have cut his neck!
And he did that all in the ride home (30 minutes).

I'll try to post it tonight or tomorrow.

[nar1122]

Eek! :eek:

We dont want to cut his neck now do we?
Lol
Good thing you noticed it.
Parrotlets are little menaces!!!

[Pado]

Little menaces that are :D -

He knew he didn't want to wear that :) - I wouldn't worry about having to remove it - if it is his diet and the itching stops he'll stop plucking.

[Elyse]

Here are the humiliating pictures as promised!
2.jpg and 3.jpg are of Kismet in his Elizabeth collar :(
He's looking terribly unhappy.

1.jpg and 4.jpg are of the damage he did to the collar in the 30 minute ride home. In retrospect, I don't think the collar was a very good idea. I understand its purpose, and maybe in a more severe instance it would be helpful, but you can see how he could have caused himself to be hurt very badly (especially 4.jpg, and that ragged edge was right against his neck). Needless to say, I took it off as soon as we got home and he was so thankful!

Update: He's already growing back feathers! After the diet change, he has really shown an improvement - less itching, more feathers - that's really all that could improve. Yay! :D

[Pado]

One collar down :D - I can't blame him for ripping it to shreds - You should take it back to the Veterinary and tell him you want a refund its defective :) - tell him it fell apart :D :D

[AndreaFahy]

Have you seen our basic avian care guide?

http://www.bonsaibirds.com/Documents/aviancareguide.pdf

[Elyse]

The vet was sympathetic to my college student status (isn't he swell!) and gave the collar to me on the house.
Maybe that's why... :eek:

Thanks for the tips, Andrea!!
I initially looked at your site to buy a parrotlet, but I needed somewhere on the east coast. ;)

[Elyse]

Update: Kismet has lots of new, green feathers!!!
Still preening a lot, but since those feathers are sticking around, I think he's just breaking the shells and letting new feathers out.
:D

[lily]

Wow, I haven't been here for awhile and just now saw this thread. After my bragging about how well-balanced my little bird is, she pulled out all of her breast feathers in one sweltering hot day. Just like Kismet: green one day, gray the next. She was 14 1/2 months old. I was told that she was beginning her first adult molt-- the big one-- and that, because she had no adult bird mentors, she was figuring it out on her own. I was assured that she was healthy and would do better her next molt. I was also given vitamins and minerals for her and warned not to obsess over her because I could inadvertently give her a drama reward that way and make her a plucker.

On the vitamins, she proceeded to pluck her back and legs, but she let the chest and belly grow in. I was frantic. I added more fresh foods to her diet and made a gob of chew toys for her... and tried very hard not to let her know how upset I was or see me counting feathers!

The feathers all grew back. Just when I thought everything was okay, she started chewing on herself again, just on the upper chest. This time, I was told it was raging hormones -- which makes sense because she is becoming an adult. Being careful with light, sleep, petting, etc; I got her calmed down again and all her feathers grew back. Her wings and tail were incomplete because of the molt. I was VERY happy.

Then the neighbors cranked up their thumping music one day and she immediately began pulling out her feathers... probably a dozen in just minutes. (Apartment life!) I grabbed her and ran her to the breeder's to board, where she immediately quit plucking.

Here is what I think: I think I have a nervous bird. I think she calms herself by chewing on herself. I think if I could improve her diet even more, she would be more tolerant of stress. Of course, another possibility is that she has an allergy, however, she does not get the foods that usually are allergenic to birds. If she has an allergy, I think it is to molds, tobacco, or fragrances that come in through our window from the neighbors. The third possibility I imagined is that she was born with a mineral deficiency (she has a minor foot deformity) and uses her feathers as a food source. I'd be more than grateful to entertain anyone else's theories, too. I'd also like ideas for super-healthy foods to feed her during stressful times.

Anyway, I wanted offer you comfort with the knowledge that Kismet isn't the only parrotlet that went gray at the onset of the first adult molt. I hope it is just a food allergy and that he continues to do well. I'm also hoping that someone else will remember if their parrotlet had a rough first adult molt and will tell about it! And the guilt feelings-- gosh, I still feel awful. If she preens, I panic; if her feathers look better than the day before, I worry that my noticing will focus her attention on her feathers and upset her!

[AndreaFahy]

Hav eyou ever considered the stress of a singly kept parrot that instinctively needs a mate? At the breeders, is she around other birds? It's possibly a food allergy, yes, but that is not the only thing to consider -esp. since there seems to be a link to stress / nuerotic behavior

It is worth a lot of thought...the mate issue that is..

[BUUZBEE]

Hav eyou ever considered the stress of a singly kept parrot that instinctively needs a mate? At the breeders, is she around other birds? It's possibly a food allergy, yes, but that is not the only thing to consider -esp. since there seems to be a link to stress / nuerotic behavior
It is worth a lot of thought...the mate issue that is..


6 pairs parrotlets, 1 grey, 1 pair macaws, 1 sun conure, 1 pair cockatiels, 1 pair bourke parakeets

Just curious... will you be getting mates for these 2 or are there special reasons they are not paired up?

why do so many Parrotlets kept as a pair seem to pluck? I would be sick if that happened to Chipper. I will not be getting another for lots of reason's but I always wonder why pairs do the plucking. I have seen it with other parrots too.
I have paired birds, and no plucking with any of them. A lot of bonded pairs will do light plucking for the nest, but nothing so drastic as this.

What kind of lighting does he have?

[Pado]

molds, tobacco, or fragrances that come in through our window from the neighbors.


Sorry to hear you are going through this.

I don't have first hand experience with plucking (and knock on wood I never will) But found it interesting you mentioned the above: Art mentioned one of his suspicions being cigarette smoke coming from an upstairs neighbor.

Sounds like there are 101 reasons for plucking - a separate forum might be a good Idea for this topic - We could all learn from it.

[Sally]

Andrea, why do so many Parrotlets kept as a pair seem to pluck? I would be sick if that happened to Chipper. I will not be getting another for lots of reason's but I always wonder why pairs do the plucking. I have seen it with other parrots too.

[Pado]

I've heard of more single bird plucking than pairs - although it does happen with pairs also - There are so many different reasons for plucking - one is boredom or loneliness and another is sexual frustration - this usually isn't a reason with pairs. But there also is food, environment - allergy and the list goes on - those would hit both pairs or singles.

[Pado]

Post by Art thats worth a reprise given this topic:
http://www.talkparrotlets.com/showthread.php?p=4741#post4741

[lily]

Hav eyou ever considered the stress of a singly kept parrot that instinctively needs a mate? At the breeders, is she around other birds?
I am aware of that theory, but having an additional bird is not an option. At the breeder's, I understood that my bird was kept mostly alone. She would have heard other birds, but no mega-bass pounding thin apartment walls. She can hear other birds here, too, and is alone only when she is sleeping.

...there seems to be a link to stress / nuerotic behavior
Yes, that is why I hope to help her cope with any kind of stress, including dietary, travel, pollutant, noise, and the stress of molting.

What kind of lighting does he have?
DuroTest, if I'm reading the right part. Where we lived before was not only quieter, but we also could sit in the sun on a porch -- not possible here. Elyse, what light does Kismet have?


I've heard of more single bird plucking than pairs - although it does happen with pairs alsoPerhaps there are more single bird households--that would be an interesting study. I have noticed that many once-only-bird pluckers teach their new mates how to pluck or pluck them themselves. Some of the worst plucked birds I have ever seen were either mated or living with a same-species, opposite sex bird in the next cage.



... found it interesting you mentioned (mold, tobacco, and fragrance): Art mentioned one of his suspicions being cigarette smoke coming from an upstairs neighbor.
Yes, another source of stress, and isn't it interesting that the very first plucking episode was the day we turned on the air conditioner and had to turn it off because it was making MY skin itch?!! We know there is a leak in the roof and suspect that the attic is moldy and that heating and cooling ducts that run through it have numerous leaks in them, so we don't use them.

Sounds like there are 101 reasons for plucking - a separate forum might be a good Idea for this topic - We could all learn from it.
I agree. And the article Art found is excellent.

[Sally]

I have seen lots of pairs pluck. P'lets can be very happy and healthy like Chipper kept as a single. I am home all day and she has a happy family that loves her. I have never had a bird pluck.

If I were gone during the day I would have another, but with Chronic Fatigue, one precious Parrotlet and one adorable Shih Tzu is perfect. :) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sally11/pinkscrap.gif

[AndreaFahy]

there is also a link to pluckers being hand raised/fed parrots - I don't know of any parent raised pluckers.

[Sally]

Have not heard that. Interesting.

[lily]

That links in to my theory about her having a nutritional deficiency. Parent raised babies would have a better diet (provided tha parents were getting a good diet) and the parent-raised baby would be getting enzymes from the parents' bodies, wouldn't it? (At least, that's how it works with baby goats.)

[AndreaFahy]

I'll have to get details from one of my international friends where parent raised birds are more commonly kept :) That was new to me also, just this year. They are seeing that the only pluckers are the hand raised/fed.

[Sally]

There are so many reasons!

[lily]

I did some checking, and have learned that the idea that only hand fed parrots pluck is a popular myth! I learned this from a person who ran a sanctuary for parrots, and many of the pluckers there were wild caught or parent raised. However, malnourished birds may pluck, so that may be how the idea was started. Certainly, the value of an excellent diet for a stressed bird can't be overlooked.

[AndreaFahy]

I have a green pacific hen named Lily :)

PS - tis not a myth!

It would really have a lot to do with the keeping methods as well. In Germany parrots are kept flighted in large aviaries (large enough for big macaws to have full flight in) and they are kept in pairs or flocks of same species. They are fed natural diets and their temperature and humidity needs are tended to properly (no 68 degree air conditioned house, with dry air or artificially made foods like pellets) In those living situations, the only pluckers were the hand raised ones.

I would be curious of the keeping methods where this sanctuary you know of only saw plucking in the wild caught and parent raised pairs. Were they kept in the states in average American keeping conditions (eg. clipped wings, caged where they can't fly, not in a pair or flock)?

[AndreaFahy]

Andrea, why do so many Parrotlets kept as a pair seem to pluck? I would be sick if that happened to Chipper. I will not be getting another for lots of reason's but I always wonder why pairs do the plucking. I have seen it with other parrots too.

SOrry, I just saw this. And Sally, I really can't answer that question. I have never witnessed paired parrotlets plucking and I don't know 100% the history and keeping conditions of those that do. Sorry I dno't have a good answer...

[BUUZBEE]

The only paired plucking i've ever read was plucking to line the nest box, but i've never seen it in p'lets. with other birds i've breed, its just the hen that will do this, and its never compulsive plucking. The do just enough to help line the box and to have more contact from breast to egg. I would guess with pairs doing drastic plucking it would be due to stress.

[lily]

...this sanctuary you know of only saw plucking in the wild caught and parent raised pairsNo, the sanctuary has both parent-raised and hand fed pluckers, all of which were pluckers before they came to the sanctuary. Some quit plucking after they came to the sanctuary. One throughly plucked bird came from a prestigous public garden where it had a natural habitat, however, I will have to find out if it was wild caught or hand raised.

[lily]

P.S. Lily was a name suggested to me for my green pacific hen! That's why I chose it for my username... funny.

[Pado]

I've read both of Wild caught and Hand raised Parrots plucking - - But there has been no case I've read of plucking in wild birds living in their natural Habitat.

The wild flock of Conures living in San Francisco has a plucker in the flock. She was not born into the flock but joined it so she was someone's Pet at one time. Even though she is flying with the rest of the flock now and is eating everything they are eating she still continues to pluck... I guess it could be a medical issue or a learned behavior that she can't break - who knows.

[AndreaFahy]

Thanks :)

I really like the name Lily, my grandmother's name was Lillian and has always held a very special place in my heart....so Lily is special too ;)

[Elyse]

Lily!
Sorry I just got down to reading this, college just started and the first week or two can be a little harried. I'll try to answer all the questions you asked and comment on things that I can remember. :)

First of all: Good luck with your little girl!! I feel the same way: every time I see Kismet preening my heart skips a beat. But more green feathers are growing in every day and he's still a happy little fellow so I try not to worry.

And the light issue: I keep Kismet at my parent's place (the apartment I live in now is not bird friendly, more on that later). His cage is mobile and he is usually on the counter of a gigantic kitchen by the window (don't worry, he's away from all the cooking stuff) or on his "summer home" (a small play gym) that we take around the house with us. My mother is a *very* good babysitter and a second Mom to my little guy. Being a male, he doesn't get too attached to either of us! He seems to enjoy my company more when I'm at home, and definitely Mom's more than any other of my family members.

My apartment right now is very nice, about two years old, but like any other apartment has bug problems. I didn't move Kismet in the first week because I knew I would be running around getting everything settled. The second week, the landlord sprayed for bugs in my apartment. To think if Kismet had been in there! I would have had a dead bird! :eek: Neighbors two doors down smoke (only outside), but there is no one above me and I haven't seen or heard from the tenant below me. Either way, as long as there is random bug spraying, Kismet cannot come stay with me.

I think you're right on the nerves front -- I know when I get nervous, I often pick at my cuticles/make hang nails. :o I'm sure that's just her way. I don't know if diet has much to do with her nerves, unless you're feeding her something to calm her down (maybe some chamomile? I just came up with that, I don't know if that's really feasible). Maybe allergies, too, with the other neighbors and the smoking/perfumes, etc.

Apartments and birds just don't mix, I'm learning. When I found my apartment, I was very happy with it: very clean, studio, smallish, new. But now I know it's not a home for my little Kizzer. :mad: Next time I go apartment hunting, I'm going to be more stringent about the premises.

Sorry for all the blah blah!

[Elyse]

Oh, something else in common!!
Kismet also has a bum foot - I'll have to take a picture of it. His is from an injury before I owned him, the vet surmised a clutch mate thought Kismet invaded his space. :(

He has a very short toe (bit off???) and on an adjacent toe his toe nail is malformed.

[lily]

Andrea, the ex-aviary pluckers at the sanctuary were wild caught, but the natural habitat where they lived had not been their only home. I agree, that the ideal conditions the Germans create for their birds contributes to the lack of plucking they see.

Elyse, Does the landlord spray without asking first? (I don't think that's legal!) I had a landlord that did that and nearly killed my pets and me. The man doing the spraying was horrified when he saw that I was inside. I had no idea that they were going to spray because I didn't have bugs. I use a hedge apple (osage orange) under each sink to deter insects. Cockroaches simply vanish...without poisonous fumes. But you are right, apartment life is risky for a little bird. I have a $500 air cleaner (it was for me, not the bird!) running near my bird's cage, and it has saved her life at least once.

I do offer chamomile to my bird to help her relax. She enjoys it but doesn't eat it daily. If I knew when she was feeling stress, I could give it to her then; but, since I don't know she is stressed before she plucks, I think I'll just keep a little bowl of it available for her all the time. (dried blossoms, organic) Thanks for reminding me.

I'm looking forward to the foot picture. Verrrry interesting.

Good luck with school.

Pado, If I remember correctly, San Francisco also had an unmated conure who did not pluck: Conner.

[AndreaFahy]

Rescue remedy is also a good, homeopathic calming remedy

[Elyse]

I had to look up a hedge apple - neat!
We got one of those from a fair, but they called them Monkey Brain. We heard it kept bugs away, but additionally the cats didn't like it at all!

I know of a hedge apple tree on campus, I'm going to visit it Tuesday and see if it's bearing fruit.

About the landlord spraying... It was definitely w/out warning, but I'll have to check the contract to see if there's anything about waived permission/required spraying/request for warning, etc. We definitely weren't in the apartment, and the man had to enter it, so perhaps all they needed was absence of life, haha.

Chammomile! How neat! I bought some lavender from a farmer's market around here, and although I make cookies with it (MMmmm!) I've never thought about feeding Kismet any herbs. Next time I go, I'll check out the chammomile!

Good luck with that!

I'll take a picture of Kiz's foot later on today. :p

[lily]

Elyse, the hedge apples should be dropping pretty soon. Lucky you. My cats didn't seem bothered by them, but they didn't spend any time under the sink, either. I'll be careful that my hedge apples are away from where the cats liek to be. Thanks for the info.

Andrea, I started my bird on Rescue Remedy when she got back from her overnight vacation at the breeder's. (I should have started it when the neighbor got loud!) I love the Bach Flower Remedies as a holistic remedy for helping birds, as well as people and other pets-- even plants. Made from blossoms, water, and sunlight, they are simple to use, absolutely safe, and the birds respond to them wonderfully. I think every bird keeper should have Rescue Remedy on hand and be aware of the other Bach Flower Remedies.

Homeopathic remedies are different, being made from crude substances-- even poisons-- which are diluted and succussed repeatedly. To use them, more information must be gathered in order to make an accurate choice, familiarity with the remedies is essential in order to evaluate the response, and care must be taken in deciding if and when to repeat the remedy. Properly used, the results can be jaw-dropping; but, unless using homeopathy for the simplest first-aid situations (which I highly recommend), a lot of study must go into using it.

[AndreaFahy]

I agree about the Rescue Remedy :) Which do you have? Currently I just have the drops. A good friend of mine in Germany has her own line of Flower Remedies and homeopathic remedies coming out - I am very excited - we will be able to make these available in North America. Fascinating stuff. She works very closely with pharmacies and avian veterinarians, etc. and really does a great job. Even just published a 250 or so page book on first aid for parrots, I can hardly wait for her to translate it to English :)

[lily]

I have Rescue Remedy in the dropper bottle. It's so versatile that way that I have not needed other forms. For many years, my hobby was making flower remedies. Once, my cat drank some while it was being made. Turned out that that particular flower was well indicated for his condition.

I have been asked to bring out a line of flowers and homeopathics for birds (!) but I'm not as far along on the project as your friend is! It sounds like she is doing a great job-- I want to read the book, too!

[Elyse]

Lily, if you want any hedge apples just let me know -- I'll pick up a few and mail them to anyone! USPS's flat rate boxes are hot, hot, hot.

So, this Rescue Remedy? I don't think I've seen it in my pet stores... Is it just an herbal supplement to water? What exactly is it for?

[AndreaFahy]

We sell the 10 ML bottle of Bach Rescue Remedy, I don't know of any other pet/parrot shops that do so (other than Ann in Germany)

It is for natural stress relief. From the box:

Rescue Remedy is an all natural form of healing that can reduce everyday stress and help maintain control of your health. Effective in virtually any situation that causes stress or anxiety. Helps restore a sense of calm and control.

Gentle, safe, effective treatment for the whole family.

No artificial additives.
Suitable for vegans.

[lily]

Rescue Remedy is available at health food stores. It is made by floating certain flowers on water in the sun until the water is energized by them. Wierd, but it really works. Flower remedies aren't really herbal because the flowers or constituents from them are not in the bottle. Herbal remedies are made by drying the herb and using it as a pill or to make tea, or by making an extract by soaking the herb in alcohol, oil, or water until constituents from the herb get into the carrier, changing its color, etc. That's why the flower remedies are totally safe to use.

Thanks for the hedge apple offer, but they grow here, too. The American Indians prized the plant to make bows, so it is naturalized over much of the U.S. I think it started out mostly in Oklahoma, but don't quote me on that...

[Elyse]

Finally, Lily, pictures of Kismet's feet! A note before the pictures, his foot doesn't cause him any problems concerning pain or movement. It was tender after his first vet visit when I brought him home, but only because it went through a thorough examination.

The vet mentioned he'll probably have arthritis in that foot in old age, but until then shouldn't be a problem. Again, apparently a clutch mate incident... :(

http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=foot1sd3.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5962/foot1ku3.jpg
This is a good shot from the front of his left foot. He does have a nail on that toe, it's just smaller and tucked back.


http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=foot2gk5.jpghttp://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6733/foot2ag7.jpg
Here's from the back. You can plainly see he's got more of a nub than a toe, and that nail sticks to the side at an odd angle.


Birdy Tickles!!

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/292/kiz1pa8.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3419/kiz2ks8.jpg


Almost all my feathers are back! Yaaaay!!!

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6035/kizkj6.jpg

[Sally]

I think you are a little doll, Kismet!:p

[sueanno1189]

Try a hamster wheel, my Pichu is loving his.

[lily]

Ohmygosh! I will check my little girl's toes tomorrow-- the front view really looks like her toes! I've never really checked the back view. Her toenail didn't start to grow in at all until she was over a year old. Hmmmm.

[Elyse]

/shrug
Could be a past injury! You mentioned you thought calcium deficiency, though?

Thanks for the sweet words, Sally! :D

[lily]

Yes, I checked my girl’s feet, and I think we have an important link!!!! Both of my bird’s feet look like your bird’s left foot from the back except that the toes are normal length—just no toe nails. When I got her, she only had one toe nail (long toe, right foot) and a nub or two. I’m pretty sure she had no clutchmates, so I’m pretty sure nobody nipped off her toes—and what’s the chance that toes nipped off would be a normal length and finally grow nails? Once I saw that her toeNUBS weren’t growing (she was about a year old), I gave her Bioplasma (cell salts, which are a low-potency homeopathic preparation of the minerals normally found in blood). Her toenails began to grow; in fact, she now has tiny nails on her short back toes and left short front toe, and a nailnub on the left front long toe. The nails are so short it is still hard to tell if they will grow down or sideways, but they have little points—a huge triumph. She now has six nails/nailnubs, with the long back toes still naked. The reason I gave her the cell salts was because I suspected that she wasn’t metabolizing nutrients—especially minerals-- properly. SOOOO, what I’m thinking is – maybe both birds are mineral deficient. These minerals are necessary for the growth of bones and toenails; and also for the NERVES. That would explain plucking, especially since a calcium deficiency is sometimes the cause of plucking. I am going to give her the homeopathic preparation again and see if the plucking stops! Do you know what diet your bird’s parents had?

[AndreaFahy]

Not sure what the entire thread is (Sorry, will read it later) but SOOO many parrotlets are missing parts of toes due to clutchmates, parents, adult mates, etc, etc. Many breeding pairs are not kept adequately and don't feel safe in their environment and will nip at their babies while in the nest. This is one reason many breeders pull babies so young, b/c "the parents are mean" when really they are not properly keeping them as to allow the parents to properly raise the babies. In these environments, when left with the parents - the babies could easily wind up with broken legs, injured wings or even killed. And it's not the parents fault :(

I am interested in reading the above comments soon though, looks like interesting content.

[Mustang99]

Hi Elyse - my parrotlet went through her first molt at 4 months and did a lot of preening with little down feathers and smaller feathers being preened out but she did not have any patches where you could see the down. I thought I recently read something around plucking and some suggestions..I will try to locate. Debbie

[Elyse]

Wow, Lily! You had regrowth with the nails?? That's crazy!

Calcium deficiency, huh...
What do you think, Andrea? You're the queen of diet! :D

Kismet was fed just seeds when I got him from his breeder... a blend from a local. I have a small bag of it left, it doesn't seem too nutritional. I had a bit of a hard time getting him on real food -- he loves it, but of course he's off of it for the most part now just to get his feathers back.

Now he's on the Nutriberries (regular), some Lafeber's pellets (he'll only eat 'em if I hand feed 'em), Granola cereal (treat!) and seeds (treat!). I don't think he has a calcium deficiency in his diet, but perhaps in his metabolism...? He definitely had clutch mates so I assumed that was true to the vet's word.

Andrea, I'm really curious as to what you think.

[mystic101]

My baby is going through the same thing too. Not as severe though. I think that it is getting better each day. Good Luck.

[lily]

My baby is going through the same thing too. Not as severe though. I think that it is getting better each day. Good Luck.You mean missing toenails or plucking itself gray with the first adult molt?You had regrowth with the nails?? That's crazy!
Well, I don't know if it counts as regrowth. She just didn't have them! I think it's more like they finally grew.

Mustang, My bird went through her 4 month molt just fine, although she was crabby... That's why I was so surprised with her behavior at her first adult molt.

[Cindy215]

I'm so happy to read a diet change helped. :)

For future reference other irritants are pellets, tap water, man made chemicals found in vitamins, pellets and enriched "food"/seed, water from humidifiers, sulfites found especially in dried fruits, and the worst thing ionizing air cleaners some birds have plucked naked in one night with them. If you feed dried fruits they should not look all pretty and bright that means they have sulfites in them they should look dull in color. And the manufacturer has to be good. Like Goldenfeast will tell you honestly which foods have sulfites and which don't. This would put pellets and Nutriberries on the "no" list but if he's tolerating them then I guess its' ok...you also want to avoid salt, sugar (fake processed and LOW sugar in fruits so not too much even though most love fruit imo), and even other chemicals like baking soda and baking powder. The more human processed ingredients the lower his allergic load tolerance will be. Not to mention his liver and kidneys will have trouble processing all that stuff that parrots aren't built for.

[Sally]

Just as doggies have trouble with processed foods sometimes. I feed fresh foods to my little dog, same thing. Fresh food is good! Easier on the kidneys and liver etc.