Paint issue on our cage..now what?

[Exoteric]

Hey everyone - I need your advice please...

I was soooo excited to be able to re-use a custom cage I had saved. It's actually 3 guinea pig cages stacked, zipped tied together, and I had used it previously for my pet rats. The bar spacing is 5/8th. Ok for our parrotlet and lovebird (I was told).

So, Ratties had chewed a few spots, I wanted to give it a fresh coat of paint, I contacted Krylon, who said using the indoor/outdoor high gloss was safe. I washed the cage, prepped it as instructed, and 1 week later realized that my paint job was an EPIC FAILURE. Ugh, there's little paint flecks coming off when I attach and remove toys or scrape it with my nails. :(

We JUST brought home our birds 2 days ago (I would have posted this earlier but we've been having so much fun with them!)... I had told the breeder about this cage problem, and she was so kind she lent me a very nice cage for 2 to 3 weeks until I find something else.

Well, here is my dilemma, I spent over 100$ on toys, another 100$ on food, and 250$ on birds..my budget is depleted. So, I'm in a bind. I want to buy a large cage for them but that would mean dipping into the emergency fund for dogs/birds.

2nd option is to get a small cage second hand and hope that it won't cause behavioral problems for the birds. I'd get a cage for them within 3 months.

3rd option is to scrub down the cage like a mad woman and use it for the 2 or so months until I can put some money towards a beautiful home for them.

What would you do if you were in my place?:confused:

[enborgle]

I wouldn't risk using the old cage, that's for sure - they wouldn't have to ingest much to cause major problems.

When you say you could use a small second hand cage, how small is small? Why not a large second hand cage, thoroughly scrubbed and disinfected?

If it were me, I would probably dip into the emergency fund.

[rubberstampman]

I'm not so sure I would trust that the paint is not toxic! I'm with enborgle- maybe this IS the emergency and you should spring for a better cage (perhaps something not too expensive like on craigs list or ebay?)

[pea_pea]

yh, id use emrgncy funds as well i found a cage just this past weekend on craigs list. i paid 40 but got a 20x24 which is almost 2 1/2x as big as the large parakeet page i originally had her in. she's really loving it, and i feel much better about leavin her for work
good luck

[ilovemySwarley]

look on craigslist, you can get really nice cages for like 150 (cages that would normally be $300 or more)

[jodeg]

I agree with everyone -- I don't think you should put your special babies in the painted cage, not safe at all. Like everyone said, look on Craig's List. Make sure the cage is super clean, no paint chips, etc., get the best price you can, bring it home and then SCRUB it like a madwoman!

I recently sold one of my HQ Flight Cages (they're huge) on Craig's List. It was in perfect condition, I spent HOURS cleaning it and checking it over. I sold it for $100 -- I'm very pleased with that amount, and so was the buyer (for 2 Cockatiels).

I also listed it on eBay Classifieds, which is a new thing they have. It's free to list, no final value fee, no fees at all, and I could put up 8 pictures for free. It works a lot like Cragi's List -- you pick your area and that's who sees your item -- no mailing involved. I guess they're trying to get Craig's List people over to eBay! Anyway, it's another place to check.

Good luck -- please don't risk your babies!

[Jinx n Noodle]

Yup, I would either get a good large second hand cage, or dip in the emergency fund. it's hard to say if the small second hand cage would be good enough... depends on how small it is. If using it for only 3 months until you can afford something larger, I don't think that would be that bad for the 2 birds. I like smaller cages at first because it makes training easier and then you can use the smaller cage as a transport cage or a sleep cage.

[Explorer]

Hey everyone - I need your advice please...

I was soooo excited to be able to re-use a custom cage I had saved. It's actually 3 guinea pig cages stacked, zipped tied together, and I had used it previously for my pet rats. The bar spacing is 5/8th. Ok for our parrotlet and lovebird (I was told).

So, Ratties had chewed a few spots, I wanted to give it a fresh coat of paint, I contacted Krylon, who said using the indoor/outdoor high gloss was safe. I washed the cage, prepped it as instructed, and 1 week later realized that my paint job was an EPIC FAILURE. Ugh, there's little paint flecks coming off when I attach and remove toys or scrape it with my nails. :(

We JUST brought home our birds 2 days ago (I would have posted this earlier but we've been having so much fun with them!)... I had told the breeder about this cage problem, and she was so kind she lent me a very nice cage for 2 to 3 weeks until I find something else.

Well, here is my dilemma, I spent over 100$ on toys, another 100$ on food, and 250$ on birds..my budget is depleted. So, I'm in a bind. I want to buy a large cage for them but that would mean dipping into the emergency fund for dogs/birds.

2nd option is to get a small cage second hand and hope that it won't cause behavioral problems for the birds. I'd get a cage for them within 3 months.

3rd option is to scrub down the cage like a mad woman and use it for the 2 or so months until I can put some money towards a beautiful home for them.

What would you do if you were in my place?:confused:

Hi, I wonder what kind of breeder said it was ok to put the birds into a used zip tied cage that housed rats with such large bar spacing.. not to mention that they are not the same breed and difficulties are bound to arise as they get older..
I would nix the toys (return them to the store) and get a good cage for them.. nowadays, you can find great deals on ebay, craigslist, petco, ebay.. I bought a backup cage that is huge on Petco for only 35 dollars ...
I don't know.. the breeder and advise given by him or her.. is a red flag to me :confused:

[GRANNYAT50]

I agree with everyone -- I don't think you should put your special babies in the painted cage, not safe at all. Like everyone said, look on Craig's List. Make sure the cage is super clean, no paint chips, etc., get the best price you can, bring it home and then SCRUB it like a madwoman!

I recently sold one of my HQ Flight Cages (they're huge) on Craig's List. It was in perfect condition, I spent HOURS cleaning it and checking it over. I sold it for $100 -- I'm very pleased with that amount, and so was the buyer (for 2 Cockatiels).

I also listed it on eBay Classifieds, which is a new thing they have. It's free to list, no final value fee, no fees at all, and I could put up 8 pictures for free. It works a lot like Cragi's List -- you pick your area and that's who sees your item -- no mailing involved. I guess they're trying to get Craig's List people over to eBay! Anyway, it's another place to check.

Good luck -- please don't risk your babies!
It was formerly KIJIJI

[GRANNYAT50]

I bought a large flight cage at a bird fair for 35.00 and then got a similar one from Petco that was 65.00. My birds loved them. Right now I am housing my new Black capped conure in one of them. I bought a huge double stacked cage my parrotlets are in now. Check around. But keep the toys they need something to play with
This is the flight cage Sprout and Buddy are sitting on the door.

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu186/grannyat50/THANKSGIVING-11-1.jpg

this is waht they are in now.
http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu186/grannyat50/NEWCAGE004.jpg

[pea_pea]

Yup, I would either get a good large second hand cage, or dip in the emergency fund. it's hard to say if the small second hand cage would be good enough... depends on how small it is. If using it for only 3 months until you can afford something larger, I don't think that would be that bad for the 2 birds. I like smaller cages at first because it makes training easier and then you can use the smaller cage as a transport cage or a sleep cage.


yes, i will now use the smaller cage for sleepovers & such:rolleyes: i'm going out of town first week in oct, and my girls keep her by their dad's house

[LittleGems]

I would agree with the others that say that buying a proper-sized safe cage should be considered an "emergency"! Especially since you have chosen to house two different species together (which does run a big risk of aggression problems as they mature! Even though they get along great now, both species are known for being on the aggressive side to other birds) you will NEED to give them a really big cage so they can stay out each other's way if they are in a cranky mood.

You can find some awesome deals online - many of the cage suppliers are even offering free shipping. Check this out - http://www.allpetfurniture.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-13221-AEC1048.html it is a great size, great price, free shipping! I would not want to go any smaller in your situation.

[Exoteric]

Hi thanks to all who replied. I really appreciate all your advice.

I do take housing the birds very seriously, this is why I'm very upset about the situation, and I'm feeling really rushed to get the the right cage. There are so many lovely ones out there. I live near Ottawa, Ontario, and even though it's a large city, there are only a few pet stores and they all seem to supply the same stuff. That's been my experience so far.

The extra little cage I have is very small in my opinion..10 x 12 x 14
They are currently in the lent cage which is..30 x 20 x 15
I would prefer a cage to be at least 3 times bigger (or should I go bigger?)

I don't know if it's of any value to know but the parrotlet is a male and the lovebird a female. Do you think this will have an affect on how they get on as they mature?

To answer the question about the birds being housed together. I was told it would be fine and I was assured they would be ok as adults. She told me they were hatched on the same day and were hand fed together and she said they believe they are from the same clutch. I too was worried about their future behavior and she said this is a rare thing for them to get on well and that they would continue to be ok.

Initially, my daughter and I wanted to get a single bird. Either a parrotlet or lovebird. We met a parrotlet we could have bought but even though I liked him my daughter quickly fell in love with one of her mature lovebirds. So, the breeder then suggested these two babies to us but we would have to wait 3 weeks.

In that time I did a lot of reading about housing, feeding, and more but there is no way I could learn everything about birds and I put a lot of faith in what the breeder told me when I decided to get both birds. Now from what you're saying I'm worried we'll have problems. I feel just awful now. :( We've had them for 3 days and love them very much already.

We are going to look on craglist and ebay. Kijiji only has smaller cages. I would love to order one online but not sure if it could get here in time. I think you are right about this qualifying as an emergency. In the future I will increase the fun level so that we would have enough to cover all pets.

Thanks again for the references, sharing your advice & images.

I might post some cages I consider and see what you all think ok.

[jodeg]

"She told me they were hatched on the same day and were hand fed together and she said they believe they are from the same clutch"

Did you phrase this correctly, in that the breeder told you the Lovebird and the Parrotlet are from the same clutch? If this is what the breeder actually told you, I'm floored! A Lovebird and a Parrotlet are two different breeds of birds and couldn't be from the same clutch (meaning they have the same parents and are brother and sister). I'm speechless, and believe me, that doesn't happen very often!

I think you should be prepared that they may need to be housed separately when they mature. Parrotlets sometimes barely get along with other Parrotlets, let alone a bird of another breed. There are exceptions, but don't count on it and be prepared. My Angelina can be a sweetie pie with me, but will rip up any other bird that dares to come near her!

I don't want to upset you and I know you're new to this, but don't believe everything your breeder tells you -- no offense intended. Sometimes breeders get used to seeing their birds in fairly small cages, but a single Parrotlet is a very active bird and needs plenty of space for toys, exploring, flitting around, etc. I have the HQ flight cage for both my Conure and my P'let and they use every inch of the space. (see the housing section of this forum) Their home truly is their castle, and (in my opinion) their castle should be the largest cage you have room for and can afford.

Hang in there and keep posting your questions and concerns. We're all here to share, learn and help each other!

[Exoteric]

Oh my! let me clarify (I can see how the wording was wrong)...'they' as in the birds. The birds believe they are from the same clutch. They were from different parents yes. They were hand fed together and have never been apart.

Since posting earlier I've been reading more about cages, through other people's cage threads and I am trying to figure out how much shipping would be for some of the cages I like.

If (or when) they do need to be split up I thought that I could achieve that by somehow splitting this cage into two levels? My floor space is limited. I want them on my main floor (which is all open concept) where I would like to have the cage because it's the busiest area of our home doesn't have much wall/floor space for 2 cages - but I will do what is needed to make everything right for them.

Another question just popped into my head. If they are split up dose that mean they will not be allowed to come out of the cage at the same time for our playtime? And, forgive me if my next question is way off (I'm a bit stressed and overwhelmed atm)...if the p'let becomes aggressive and the lovebird is bonded to him, will the lovebird adjust to being alone? What would likely happen in this situation?

The breeder was always very kind and answered a lot of my questions but I felt like I was sometimes asking silly questions or over-thinking things somehow. I deeply appreciate having you gals and guys to turn to and ask..I really do appreciate everything.

So, for example if I chose a cage similar to the 13221 HQ Flight Bird Cage,
with two doors, is it possible to safely divide it? This cage would suffice for keeping them together or splitting them up or is that an absurd notion?

[Jinx n Noodle]

I would agree that the small cage is too small, especially for 2 birds. And I'll correct myself since I forgot that we're talking about 2 different types of birds; they should ideally be housed together. In the past I've housed parrotlets with other types of birds, but it's only lasted a few days at most due to the p'let's aggressive nature.

Jodeg- I believe the breeder was saying that the p'let and lovebird think that they're each other's clutch mates since they were raised together and not that they're from the same clutch.

[Jinx n Noodle]

If they have supervised time out, I beleive you should be able to let them out together to interact. Again with supervision. I do that currently with mine and they do fine, I break up fights when they occur (usually not many because I break them up before they occur and the other birds know to stay away from Jinx who's the most aggressive and the non p'lets just plain stay away from the p'lets including the African Grey!).

I do believe that there is another member on the board who has successfully split an HQ flight cage. I bought the King's double stacker (2 flight cages on top of each other) which has worked great for me and does save space (especially when there's 2 other cages in the room:) ). I have Jinx on top and Noodle with Indi on the bottom. So there's plenty of room for 2 birds housed togther in one cage. Of course if you have to split the 2 up, there's plenty of room for one bird in each cage. I know somebody who has the same cage as me and she houses 2 p'lets in one cage and when it's time to clean, she just moves them up or down...

And no question is ever silly, just keep asking away. It just means that you really care and want to get it right the first time:)

[jodeg]

LOL! NOW I get it! I thought your breeder was off the beam! LOL!

I guess you could split the HQ in two, but each portion would be fairly small then, and I'm not sure how it could be done. There are "stacked" cages, one on top of the other, but of course they cost more. There's a huge cage, like two cages side by side, which can be open or divided in the middle, but they take up a LOT of room, so that probably wouldn't work.

You could still let them out at the same time for playtime, but supervised closely. They may get along okay during playtime, especially when you're watching. My P'let and my Conure can be out at the same time, just not near one another!

Yes, in time they will adjust to being separated. Just make sure each bird gets plenty of YOUR attention so no one feels lonely.

I'll look around on line and see what kind of stacked cages or cages that can be divided that I can find and will let you know. I'm sure others will have some ideas too!

Don't feel silly about asking questions! We're all here to help AND learn! We know you want only the best for your new babies -- that's good!

[Explorer]

Thanks for the clarification ;) I too thought how can a breeder suggest that this will be ok in the long run..

:)

I don't know how much you can spend.. but it is a long term investment since these little ones can grace your home for about 20 years..

this cage looks nice and has huge space for both

http://www.birdscomfort.com/stack_flight_cage.html

[jodeg]

Here's an A&E stacked cage -- free shipping:
http://www.csnstores.com/asp/show_detail.asp?sku=AEC1032&PiID=3277968

It looks like a lot of sites carry this cage for about the same price, and it's available in different colors. Free shipping is the way to go!

[Explorer]

Here's an A&E stacked cage -- free shipping:
http://www.csnstores.com/asp/show_detail.asp?sku=AEC1032&PiID=3277968

It looks like a lot of sites carry this cage for about the same price, and it's available in different colors. Free shipping is the way to go!

ha ha.. great minds !!

[LittleGems]

ha ha.. great minds !!

That double-stacked cage is the same cage I am buying next month for my conures! And that site is a great place to order from if you are from Canada, as the shipping is still free! Plus they add in all the taxes, duties, brokerage fees etc so you pay everything up front, no surprises upon arrival like most places. Just add the cage to your shopping cart, put in your postal code and it will give you the grand total including the "international fees". :D

I found the prices there to be much less than through any of the Canadian Suppliers

[LittleGems]

The extra little cage I have is very small in my opinion..10 x 12 x 14
They are currently in the lent cage which is..30 x 20 x 15
I would prefer a cage to be at least 3 times bigger (or should I go bigger?)

Bigger is always better! (as long as bar spacing is appropriate, of course). That little cage is ok for a travel cage, but I definitely would not want them in anything that small for any longer than a day or two.

Like I mentioned in another post, do check out CSN/Allpetfurniture as there prices are better than any Canadian source I can find, they make international ordering very easy, and my understanding is the shipping is very fast (someone on another forum I am on lives in Newfoundland and I think she got her 3 cages in less than a week?)

Parrotdise Perch (in Missisauga) does carry HQ flight cages and has free shipping on those but I have heard of some people that waited a LONG time to actually receive the cages:(

I don't know if it's of any value to know but the parrotlet is a male and the lovebird a female. Do you think this will have an affect on how they get on as they mature?

To answer the question about the birds being housed together. I was told it would be fine and I was assured they would be ok as adults. Honestly, nobody can predict the future. Maybe they will remain very friendly with each other even at maturity. But it just as easily could go the other way. It is a gamble. Female lovebirds can be very evil/aggressive to other birds at maturity. (and I say this as a huge lovebird fan!) I know I would feel better with them in separate cages, and keep their interaction to supervised playtime...but in the end that is your decision to make.

[Exoteric]

Wow - many thanks for the suggestions _ I'm still looking them over.

A thought came up when I read a review.. Is there an importance to the bars being either vertical or horizontal? And, are there types of doors/locks to stay away from? I haven't decided on which cage yet as there are a few I like. I will have to narrow it down soon.

I would really prefer to keep them together. I'm going to go through some pics I just took and share some with you.

It is hard to see the future (I agree with you) and I know someday I'll think back to now, my fear is to make a mistake, especially a fatal one, we love these little ones more than anything and we've only had them 4 days.

I am a home maker and going back to work part-time so I'll be away from the house for just a few hours a day. My kids and I want to spend as much time with them as possible but I still want them to have a grand home in our home.

[jodeg]

Some people worry about the vertical bars, thinking their birds will have trouble climbing up and down, BUT my birds don't have any problems at all, none! They zip up and down like crazy, no problem!

[Exoteric]

does anyone have this cage?
I can't see what the doors are like and I didn't find any images on google.

A&E Cage Co. Extra Large Flight Bird Cage - 4030FL


http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-4030FL-AEC1039.html?cv= (http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-4030FL-AEC1039.html?cv=)

[Explorer]

does anyone have this cage?
I can't see what the doors are like and I didn't find any images on google.

A&E Cage Co. Extra Large Flight Bird Cage - 4030FL


http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-4030FL-AEC1039.html?cv= (http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-4030FL-AEC1039.html?cv=)

I don't have that cage.. but the door structure is more flimsy than some of the other suggestions.. remember if you want to get at your birdies.. and if the doors / access is easy enough..
If you do plan to keep them together.. then a nice large HQ cage is best quality wise and half the price..

[Exoteric]

Ok I think I've made up my mind. (I think)

I would not have been able to without your support and help so thank you again!

Now, this is my thought process...

First, I really admired this cage. The A&E Cage Co. Powder Coated Wrought Iron Cage - 13221 (http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-13221-AEC1048.html?cv=). This single cage is the same width and depth as the stackable (runner-up). It is on a taller stand and the cage is 3 extra inches taller. This meant that if the fids need to be split up there was a possibility of adding a floor midway to divide. But, I don't know if that would have worked out and may be too small in the end.

Soooo, ultimately I'm thinking of going with the A&E Cage Co. Double Stack Flight Bird Cage - 13221-2flight cage instead.
(http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-13221-2-AEC1032.html?cv=)
I believe the difference here is that the cages are 3 inches shorter. Still same width and depth. I'll get 2 cages right. Stack-able. Which means that I don't have to set up the second one right away. I may decide to set up the second cage and use it on another floor in our home (my daughter wants to have a cage in her room to have the birds 'sleep over' sometimes ;)) And, in the end if the fids do end up having aggression and I need to house them separately, well then I'll stack the cages and everything is A-OK correct? I hope so. At that point I'll get a back up cage for my daughter's room for her lovebird if need be.

Does this sound like a good plan? *fingers crossed*

Here comes another question (thanks for putting up with me)..In choosing the cage color, is there any advantage in one color over another for the birds, or is it simply aesthetic for us, is there a practical side to certain colors? I've asked my DH and he said Charcoal (he thinks it'll blend in with the modern future) but I feel that charcoal resembles the color of jail bars. And, would the bars get hot should the sunlight cast on the cage. Should I go with "SAND" ..it's very neutral, hides dirt well (may or may not be a good thing) or "WHITE" crisp clean but is it timeless or "CHARCOAL" hmm not sure here. I even thought of going with the diamond blue (I love bright colors) but our sectional is olive green. What do you prefer? Maybe I should set up a poll?! LOL.

[ParrotletsRock]

I am not sure if that is actually 2 totally separate cages or if it is one frame divided in two... I cannot see where they would actually come apart. Maybe email the manufacturer and ask them. Still a very nice looking cage. With olive green furniture I would go for the green...lol But I like the sand color too.

[Jinx n Noodle]

I'm not sure if the cage separates either. As for less height, height doesn't matter as much as length and width. I know that the King cage stackable flight cages come apart into 2 separate cages since I have that cage. In which, I think your thought process sounds perfectly good to me:)

As for colors. I've had charcoal and grey colored cages and I like both pretty well... more so the grey because it hides dirt from bird poop and other debris. The charcoal does a pretty good job too, but sometimes some of the white from the poop shows up. I've had white cages in the past and hated them because everythng shows up on them.

[Explorer]

does anyone have this cage?
I can't see what the doors are like and I didn't find any images on google.

A&E Cage Co. Extra Large Flight Bird Cage - 4030FL


http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-4030FL-AEC1039.html?cv= (http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-4030FL-AEC1039.html?cv=)

Ok I think I've made up my mind. (I think)

I would not have been able to without your support and help so thank you again!

Now, this is my thought process...

First, I really admired this cage. The A&E Cage Co. Powder Coated Wrought Iron Cage - 13221 (http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-13221-AEC1048.html?cv=). This single cage is the same width and depth as the stackable (runner-up). It is on a taller stand and the cage is 3 extra inches taller. This meant that if the fids need to be split up there was a possibility of adding a floor midway to divide. But, I don't know if that would have worked out and may be too small in the end.

Soooo, ultimately I'm thinking of going with the A&E Cage Co. Double Stack Flight Bird Cage - 13221-2flight cage instead.
(http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-13221-2-AEC1032.html?cv=)
I believe the difference here is that the cages are 3 inches shorter. Still same width and depth. I'll get 2 cages right. Stack-able. Which means that I don't have to set up the second one right away. I may decide to set up the second cage and use it on another floor in our home (my daughter wants to have a cage in her room to have the birds 'sleep over' sometimes ;)) And, in the end if the fids do end up having aggression and I need to house them separately, well then I'll stack the cages and everything is A-OK correct? I hope so. At that point I'll get a back up cage for my daughter's room for her lovebird if need be.

Does this sound like a good plan? *fingers crossed*

Here comes another question (thanks for putting up with me)..In choosing the cage color, is there any advantage in one color over another for the birds, or is it simply aesthetic for us, is there a practical side to certain colors? I've asked my DH and he said Charcoal (he thinks it'll blend in with the modern future) but I feel that charcoal resembles the color of jail bars. And, would the bars get hot should the sunlight cast on the cage. Should I go with "SAND" ..it's very neutral, hides dirt well (may or may not be a good thing) or "WHITE" crisp clean but is it timeless or "CHARCOAL" hmm not sure here. I even thought of going with the diamond blue (I love bright colors) but our sectional is olive green. What do you prefer? Maybe I should set up a poll?! LOL.

sounds like a good plan if they really come apart :)
as for colors.. I like white.. blends in nicely with the walls ... and becomes part of the house.. I have mine in the living room and with as much time as I spend here.. they don't stand out like huge boxes.. rather compliment :)

[LittleGems]

I like your plan for the double stacker :)

The sand is my favorite and what I am ordering for my conures - but most of my house is in earth tones so it will blend well.

The charcoal does look really nice in person though, it is a two-tone kind of finish, reminds me a bit of a dark granite. The platinum is also quite nice. Both these finishes would look great I think with modern style furniture?

I personally do not like white cages, it shows EVERY little speck of everything! (although black is the very worst for that! my breeder cages are black and they look horrible 10 minutes after they are scrubbed LOL)

I had a cage in a blue very similar to the A&E cages and I found it was really hard to keep clean and dust showed up really bad on it. It was a pretty color though, when it was clean LOL

[jodeg]

My HQ flight cages are Platinum (kind of light gray), and they seem to go with every color and don't show dust......not that I have any! Tee Hee!

[Exoteric]

After looking high and low for the assembly instructions on google for the cage to determine if they are two separate cages..I wrote to the store and will find out soon (probably Monday). If they aren't I'll just get two cages, build my own base, and go stack them regardless because I don't have the room for two side by side.

On my search, I did discover that the catch trays on many of the cages don't necessarily need to be installed. Which would save that extra few inches on the back/sides. I thought that was a neat fact.

OK..As for the colors, I'm always willing to draw off of the experiences others have had. Thank you again for letting me in on the secrets of p'let parronting ;) In the past my rat cages were always white and they looked clean for the most part. I could put them into the shower and hose them down too but I don't think I can do that with these cages. I think that going with sand will relieve my obsession about 'seeing' dust/dirt. I'll have to decorate around the cage I guess. :D And, speaking of poop..what is the best solution to remove it on these large cages...do you all use that poop off product?:confused: I'm a vinegar and water kinda gal.

And, I didn't know if I should post this in another thread or not. I do want to share it though because I wouldn't want this to happen to someone else. I plan to write the company too. I had a scare today because of the "Living World Medium Feeder cup" (picture below). Our little lovebird managed to put her foot right through and was fluttering around upside down like crazy trying to get back on top.:eek: My heart skipped a few beats!! Luckily I was right there eating breakfast and came to her rescue. I am returning those bowls and getting stainless steel now (I think).

http://i34.tinypic.com/2vugahh.jpg

[LittleGems]

Somebody on another forum I go to has the double stacker, I will ask her if the cages come apart!

Wow, glad your lovie's foot was ok. I gotta say, I have used those style of cups a lot over the 15 years and never had that happen! I have had a number of birds chew off the perch part though - if you wanted to keep the dishes you could use tough scissors/tin snips to clip off the perch and just sand off any rough spots. The stainless steel really is the best though!

[Laney]

I order a lot of my stuff from these guys:

http://www.parrotdiseperch.com/parrot/index.php

I find them to be reasonably priced with pretty quick order turn-around. I'm in Canada as well and like to order from Canadian suppliers to save myself extra tax and hassles with shipping things across the border. They do carry double flight cages as well.

Good luck!

[LittleGems]

Somebody on another forum I go to has the double stacker, I will ask her if the cages come apart!

Ok, I heard back from her, this is what she said: "It's not one long piece, i'm sure you could separate them if you wanted"

[LittleGems]

I order a lot of my stuff from these guys:

http://www.parrotdiseperch.com/parrot/index.php

I find them to be reasonably priced with pretty quick order turn-around. I'm in Canada as well and like to order from Canadian suppliers to save myself extra tax and hassles with shipping things across the border. They do carry double flight cages as well.

Good luck!

Although normally I prefer to support Canadian businesses...Parrotdise Perch doesn't carry the double stack cage in stock, it is a special order item, they told me 4-6 weeks! And the price (even before shipping) was way higher than the place I am going to get it from in the states (CSN) with all costs added :(

[Jinx n Noodle]

I would go with the stainless steel cups myself. I find that they're easier to clean than the plastic ones (i could never get the corners completely clean after a couple of weeks of use). I'm glad to hear that your lovie is ok, that must have been scary.

As for catch trays, I don't believe that the double stackers or flight cages have catch trays.

[jodeg]

I only use the round stainless steel cups -- SO much easier to keep clean. My HQ cages came with white square plastic feeding cups and I don't like them, too hard to clean the corners!

I clean my cages with hot water and apple cider vineger -- that's all, no soap used, no rinsing necessary and won't hurt my babies.

[Exoteric]

Thanks for looking into that Littlegems - really do appreciate it. It's a relief to know that they will come apart. That info makes all the difference for me.

And, are you getting the same cage? If so what color are you choosing?
I'm going with the A&E Cage Co. Double Stack Flight Bird Cage - 13221-2flight cage. (http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-13221-2-AEC1032.html?cv=)

Thanks for the link Laney - I'm in Canada too which means all the fees aren't worth it. I love a lot of their stuff. I think I'd go broke if I lived in the US. LOL

I hear you Jinx & Noodle. I had never read anything to the effect of a bird trapping itself in one. I suppose it was a huge freak accident but still. I was there so my instinct was to save her. My thought afterward; should I have left her a bit to see if she could get out on her own? She seems far less agile than the p'let. Maybe it's because she's only 2 months old? In any regard I won't be using those bowls. I'm bringing them back to the store. The stainless steel (that's what I prefer for our dogs) sound good to me too..I can put them in the dishwasher too.

I did find a couple stacking cages with seed catchers..here's a link to one of them.
http://www.mybirdcage.com/double_stack_cage.html

I thought it would be handy info to share since I know these seed catchers require us to have extra room for the cage. I wouldn't want someone to be deterred from buying a cage because of the catchers. (I find this cage a bit pricey for me though).

Now, I can't wait for tomorrow to roll around so I can order :)

[Bird Lady]

I'm glad you have made a selection and can now order your cage. My experience with email ordering is that everyting gets here way before they say it will!! I do want to relate a story to you about housing two different breeds of birds together tho, from my own experience. These weren't parrotlets but two very docile, get along with everyone breed of birds. They were getting along great, no problems, hung out together, slept cuddled together, etc. One morning I went in and one of my birds was all swollen, face unrecognizable, shaking, just in terrible condition. The other birds was sitting with him as usual. Every time the sick bird would eat he would puff up and you could see he couln't breathe. He lived like that for about 2 weeks (in a hosp. cage) and then he died. I had taken him to the avian vet who said he wasn't sure, but, it could be liver disease. After my baby died, I started watching the remaining girl bird closely and saw she was missing feathers at her neck. I now know that my male tried to mate with the little female of another breed and she would have none of it. In short, she beat him up badly enought to kill him. I will never house 2 different breeds together again, especially only 2 of them. Thing that got me was they were peaceful type birds and this wasn't supposed to happen. If you go ahead and house them together, you would be wise to separate them when they reache sexual maturity because you could have the same situation, only maybe worse as the plet is agressive in his own right. I'm sorry if this upsets you but sometimes we can learn from others mistakes and I would be very upset if I didn't say something and you had a bad deal too. Good luck whatever you do and let us know how you and your birdies are doing.

[LittleGems]

Thanks for looking into that Littlegems - really do appreciate it. It's a relief to know that they will come apart. That info makes all the difference for me.

No problem, I was curious myself, as I can't imagine how hard it would be to thoroughly clean if they did not come apart! (I like to be able to wrestle mine into the bathtub now and then)

And, are you getting the same cage? If so what color are you choosing?
I'm going with the A&E Cage Co. Double Stack Flight Bird Cage - 13221-2flight cage. (http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-13221-2-AEC1032.html?cv=)Yes, that is the cage I am buying, in Sand. It might be a month before I can afford to order it, although I am hoping for sooner!

[Jinx n Noodle]

I hear you Jinx & Noodle. I had never read anything to the effect of a bird trapping itself in one. I suppose it was a huge freak accident but still. I was there so my instinct was to save her. My thought afterward; should I have left her a bit to see if she could get out on her own? She seems far less agile than the p'let. Maybe it's because she's only 2 months old? In any regard I won't be using those bowls. I'm bringing them back to the store. The stainless steel (that's what I prefer for our dogs) sound good to me too..I can put them in the dishwasher too.

I did find a couple stacking cages with seed catchers..here's a link to one of them.
http://www.mybirdcage.com/double_stack_cage.html

I thought it would be handy info to share since I know these seed catchers require us to have extra room for the cage. I wouldn't want someone to be deterred from buying a cage because of the catchers. (I find this cage a bit pricey for me though).

Now, I can't wait for tomorrow to roll around so I can order :)

The cage you're referring to is actually inappropriate for parrotlets, bar spacing too big. But yes, I see the seed catchers. They do come off though. I have 3 cages with seed catchers, none of them currently have them on. Like you said, it takes up too much room and is a pain in the butt to clean when on.

[Exoteric]

BirdLady

Change of plans for the cage. (http://www.furniturefind.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-13221-2-AEC1032.html?cv=) I'll mention that in a bit but first I want to thank you for telling me your story and I'm sooo very sorry you lost your bird this way. May I ask what type of birds they were? It is very upsetting to me that we were made to believe they would be ok as adults together. I don't have the heart to return either birds. (She said if we every couldn't keep them for whatever reason she would take them back..even swap another bird if they didn't get on well) Ugh. I just didn't want to get more than 1 cage though. For more than one reason, lack of space, I didn't want to clean 2 cages, I didn't want to house them in different parts of the house, I didn't want to split up my time between both birds, between my kids and their time with the birds..and I'm sure there are other reasons but those were the main ones. I was truly hoping to keep both birds on the main floor where we could all be together and enjoy. I'm trying to figure out the best solution.

Now as for the cage itself..I just heard back from the seller. (CSN)

Q: Can the cages be sepearated?
A: The cage is not meant to be separated.

Q: Do you sell short stands in case we want to separate the cages?
A: We do not have any shorter stands, but the item can be used without the wheels so it would be shorter.

Q: Are the cages identical? Can I swap out the top one for the bottom one? And, how are they secured to each other?
A: The cages are pretty much identical, but they are designed to be stacked a certain way. The cages are secured together with pins in the corners.

So, I'm back to square one. I guess I should ask you...what would you do if you were a new bird owner like me and in my shoes? Oh, and I've already chewed off all my nails so we can skip that part LOL.

Littlegems - glad we are discovering things and helping each other out. I used to wrestle 20 rat cages into the shower..eventually I got smart and hosed them off outside on my deck any season but winter (still a lot of work). So, I hope the above clears up some questions you may have too.
I wonder if someone here has the stacking cages and would take pics of the 'pins'. It would be nice to see them. Actually it would be nice to see profile pics of this cage. I see a lot of front on pics but no visual explanation of the way it's put together. (I'm very visual)

Jinx & Noodle

Woops I thought that was the link for the stacking with seed catchers. It's amazing how many cages are out there. It's nice to have variety but it can sure be overwhelming when making a decision.

------------------------------


OH! And, I did get a copy of the assembly instructions;


http://i53.tinypic.com/ok31k.jpg
OK - so anyway - now I must try to figure out what to do.....:rolleyes:

[Jinx n Noodle]

So in my experience, even though I have a Kings cage, the design is probably just the same as the A&E. As for the pins that they're referring to, my cage has little square pegs that are just extensions of the frame bar, about 1/2-3/4 inch long and go straight into the frame hole on the bottom cage.

Now, the cages are not meant to be used separately, but I don't see why they couldn't. The top cage obviously wouldn't be on wheels, but will sit nicely on the ground. When I got my cage (I got it used for a steal), I just transported it with the top cage separate from the bottom cage sitting in my SUV. The only thing holding the top cage to the bottom cage is a couple of screws. The same goes with the bottom cage, it goes into holes of the frame of the stand with wheels.

I'll try to get some pictures with different angles of the cage that I have. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get pictures of the pegs because I would have to lift the top cage up and it's pretty heavy with all the things that I have in the cage.

[LittleGems]

I do have some pics of an up-close furnished double stack. It is not mine so I don't want to publically post somebody's elses pics. Exoteric, I will PM you a link to the pics. Looking at the pics, unless I am missing something obvious I see no reason each cage should not be fully functional on its own.

Either way, I am still buying it. Too bad I can't afford to buy it right this moment, then I could give you the definite answer LOL

[Jinx n Noodle]

Okay, lets see if this works. I took some pictures of my double stacker for you. I was wrong about one thing, the pins that stick out to hold the cage together are on the bottom cage and inserts into the frame of the top cage and similarly with the stand and the bottom cage... though I didn't separate them to check. I had a hard enough time lifting one cage with one hand and taking pictures with the other hand... sorry if they're a bit blurry, but hopefully you'll get the idea of how it's put together.

The bottom cage rests on the stand, there's a screw on the back and the front that holds it to the stand. You can see it in the cage stand picture... silver screw under the tray on the frame bar (below the yellow/red ball in the cage).

It's really hard to see my seed catches on the cage, you can see the edges of them. They're plexiglass.

I took one picture (well, I took many, but this one turned out the best) of the corner where the 2 cages meet, so you can see the 2 frame bars sitting together. Then the picture of the pin that lines up the 2 cages, shows you how they are separated... sorry couldn't lift the top cage too far and take a picture at the same time- but the pins are welded to the bottom cage. So the top cage can sit completely flat on a surface if you separated them. It'll be a bit weird with the bottom cage, you'll have pins in each corner sticking out/up... but they're not sharp or anything.

Then the last picture is the breeder doors... I have 2 on each cage. It blends in really well with the cage, so it's hard to see, but you can sort of make the hook in the bar where it snaps into the cage (on the right side of the picture).

Let me know if you want more pictures of something specific or a closeup of something...

[Jinx n Noodle]

Okay, it only let me post 5 pictures... so here's the rest....

[Exoteric]

Woah!!! Jinx n noodle!! You totally made my day! Those pictures are perfect! they are exactly what I needed to see to make up my mind. Gosh, yes I can make that work! I can simply assemble the lower cage, and 'hide' the 4 pins on top by making a play gym with a base that has 4 pre-drilled holes. I would stash away the 2nd cage or maybe assemble it and keep it in one of the rooms upstairs (For when we have events the birds can't be around, cooking heavily, too much noise, painting house etc). I would build a stand for it of course.. And, if we start seeing aggression I will stack the cages and that will be the final outcome. SO you really deserve a cut on this sale because if it weren't for you I wouldn't be buying it. Seriously, I can't thank you enough for the time and effort you put into taking these pictures. Many thanks from our little birds too!!

A few more quick questions..I am wondering this..what is the height from the floor to the top of the bottom cage? What is the exterior height of the top cage? Your plexiglass seed catchers are they custom made? (THAT is brilliant I must say). Again, thank you in advance! :)

[LittleGems]

Those Kings Cage double stackers actually come with that plexiglass seed catcher. http://www.kingscages.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=ELFDD_3221

I wish they did free shipping to Canada! (I wonder how the bad the cost would be? I did not ask yet)

[Jinx n Noodle]

Well, mine again is a kings cage and not A&E... the link to their website is http://www.kingscages.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=ELFDD_3221

But the general info is:
Product ID: ELFDD_3221
This is a great flight cage for small birds.
32 inches Wide, 21 inches Deep
6 Ft. High, Inside height if each cage is 26 inches
½ inch Bar Spacing, 3 mm Bars thickness
4 Feeding dishes
2 Metal grills, 2 plastic trays
Easy rolling casters
2 nest box doors
2 safety latches
2 large front doors
Plexiglass Seed Guard
All of our cages are Non-Toxic and safe for your feathered friends.

I wish I can take the credit for the plexiglass seed catches, but they came with the cage. If you look at the seed catcher picture, you'll notice that there's diagonal bars along the seed catcher, it's what holds the plexiglass against the cage bars (diagonal bars are just a bit away from the cage so that the plexiglass can slide in). I must admit, I like this type of seed catchers, but my issue is that they're a pain in the butt to remove and clean since I have perches screwed low in the cage and in order to get the plexiglass out, I have to unscrew all the perches to clean.

Compared to the cage you're looking at, this one is $40 more on the manufacturer's website (free shipping and handling too); may be worth it if you're really interested in having the seed catchers.

Too bad you weren't looking for one a year ago. I got mine from craigslist from a guy who had 6 of them (down sizing his breeding flock) and he desperately needed to sell them since he was moving. For the price he was selling, it would have been worth the shipping. Heck, if I had the room and my hubbie wasn't restricting my buying habits :) I would have bought another two!

[LittleGems]

Those Kings Cage double stackers actually come with that plexiglass seed catcher. http://www.kingscages.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=ELFDD_3221

I wish they did free shipping to Canada! (I wonder how the bad the cost would be? I did not ask yet)

Ok, I just went to find out. I added one to my shopping cart, and went to check out. It said UPS ground shipping to my Canadian Address for free! Or $99 for UPS 2nd day

(Because it is UPS used for the shipping, there would still be a somewhat high brokerage fee payable to UPS upon arrival...so "free" shipping is not totally accurate LOL)

Also worth noting, Kings Cages will not take credit cards for International orders??? Only Western Union or wire transfer. (I have done wire transfers many times, so not a HUGE deal for me, and I am probably saving money paying the $22 wire transfer fee to my bank rather than paying interest on my card LOL

Hmmmm, just how extra would those seed guards be worth to me?:rolleyes: now I gotta do MORE research, comparing Kings vs A&E...:p

[Exoteric]

Those Kings Cage double stackers actually come with that plexiglass seed catcher. http://www.kingscages.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=ELFDD_3221

I wish they did free shipping to Canada! (I wonder how the bad the cost would be? I did not ask yet)

They're good with the plexiglass yeah - I just emailed them asking..we'll see what they say.

[LittleGems]

They're good with the plexiglass yeah - I just emailed them asking..we'll see what they say.

See my post above yours LOL we were both posting at the same time!

[Exoteric]

Ok, I just went to find out. I added one to my shopping cart, and went to check out. It said UPS ground shipping to my Canadian Address for free! Or $99 for UPS 2nd day

(Because it is UPS used for the shipping, there would still be a somewhat high brokerage fee payable to UPS upon arrival...so "free" shipping is not totally accurate LOL)

Also worth noting, Kings Cages will not take credit cards for International orders??? Only Western Union or wire transfer. (I have done wire transfers many times, so not a HUGE deal for me, and I am probably saving money paying the $22 wire transfer fee to my bank rather than paying interest on my card LOL

Hmmmm, just how extra would those seed guards be worth to me?:rolleyes: now I gotta do MORE research, comparing Kings vs A&E...:p

You're faster than me!! LOL:p

And, at the moment my budget is around 250$ so the seed catchers may or may not be worth it to me since my kids are scattering all sorts of seeds anyway (probably more than the birds do). All in all, I may be better off with the A&E to save myself a few bucks and just use my broom more often.

[raiven]

Hi! Since you said you are in Ottawa, I want to mention Parrodise Perch is a Canadian company that sells HQ cages and will ship free of charge. They are not cheap but if you can swing it, you will not regret getting one. Anyone else in Canada interested in a cage should check them out. I bought my first cage from the states and the second from them. Sure they are cheaper in the states but by the time you pay shipping and handling and exchange they do not come out any cheaper.

http://www.parrotdiseperch.com/parrot/shop_details.php?prod=1155

Oh by the way, 5/8 th inch is not appropriate for parrotlets!

[raiven]

And, I didn't know if I should post this in another thread or not. I do want to share it though because I wouldn't want this to happen to someone else. I plan to write the company too. I had a scare today because of the "Living World Medium Feeder cup" (picture below). Our little lovebird managed to put her foot right through and was fluttering around upside down like crazy trying to get back on top.:eek: My heart skipped a few beats!! Luckily I was right there eating breakfast and came to her rescue. I am returning those bowls and getting stainless steel now (I think).

http://i34.tinypic.com/2vugahh.jpg

I have to say I am not impressed with "Living World" cages. I got one for my Healey as a starter cage and to use as his sleep cage and I was not impressed. I had to take the whole cage apart to clean it each day. One of the clips broke right away. The bottom portion is slanted plastic which a bird can not climb on so a non-flighted bird has nothing to grab to get up to the top of its cage and the food is at the bottom of the cage so they have to go down there to eat. Plus the birds do not know the plastic is there and run into it. There were many things designwise wrong with that cage. The dishes however were not that style. Since Healey can no longer fly, I bought him a smaller simpler cage that he can easily climb around in for his sleep/travel cage.

[Exoteric]

Ladies, I'm sorry I was not seeing some posts last night - I was tired.


I do have some pics of an up-close furnished double stack. It is not mine so I don't want to publically post somebody's elses pics. Exoteric, I will PM you a link to the pics. Looking at the pics, unless I am missing something obvious I see no reason each cage should not be fully functional on its own.

Either way, I am still buying it. Too bad I can't afford to buy it right this moment, then I could give you the definite answer LOL

Thanks again LittleGems for helping me out. And, I think you are right about the cages being able to split up and be used separately. I wonder why the seller wouldn't think so..maybe because of the pins not being anesthetic? I wouldn't want your purchase to be rushed but I appreciate your willingness to help me out. It's kind of you!

Well, mine again is a kings cage and not A&E... the link to their website is http://www.kingscages.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=ELFDD_3221

But the general info is:
Product ID: ELFDD_3221
This is a great flight cage for small birds.
32 inches Wide, 21 inches Deep
6 Ft. High, Inside height if each cage is 26 inches
½ inch Bar Spacing, 3 mm Bars thickness
4 Feeding dishes
2 Metal grills, 2 plastic trays
Easy rolling casters
2 nest box doors
2 safety latches
2 large front doors
Plexiglass Seed Guard
All of our cages are Non-Toxic and safe for your feathered friends.

I wish I can take the credit for the plexiglass seed catches, but they came with the cage. If you look at the seed catcher picture, you'll notice that there's diagonal bars along the seed catcher, it's what holds the plexiglass against the cage bars (diagonal bars are just a bit away from the cage so that the plexiglass can slide in). I must admit, I like this type of seed catchers, but my issue is that they're a pain in the butt to remove and clean since I have perches screwed low in the cage and in order to get the plexiglass out, I have to unscrew all the perches to clean.

Compared to the cage you're looking at, this one is $40 more on the manufacturer's website (free shipping and handling too); may be worth it if you're really interested in having the seed catchers.

Too bad you weren't looking for one a year ago. I got mine from craigslist from a guy who had 6 of them (down sizing his breeding flock) and he desperately needed to sell them since he was moving. For the price he was selling, it would have been worth the shipping. Heck, if I had the room and my hubbie wasn't restricting my buying habits :) I would have bought another two!
The cages are very similar in style. I guess the seed catchers set it apart. Do you think there is any other difference? Quality? The stand is a wee bit different right.

oooh, that bites to have to undo the perches to clean the plexiglass. I wonder if they could be made to pivot instead of slide in. Have you mentioned this to KC?

Last year my daughter was asking me for a bird. I don't know where she gets her interest for them. I didn't know anything about birds so I said no. Anyway, she was speech delayed, now has learning difficulties and is a friendly yet shy little girl. She was sick for 2 years due to stress (because of school). She has always been close to the dogs. I've already seen an improvement in her mood since we got the birds. It seems to lift her spirits.
Now I'm wishing I had - I would have jumped on the chance of getting the cage for sure. I'm always thrifty and enjoy saving money where I can. Well, now I've got no time to waste lol..on account of having a borrowed cage.

Hi! Since you said you are in Ottawa, I want to mention Parrodise Perch is a Canadian company that sells HQ cages and will ship free of charge. They are not cheap but if you can swing it, you will not regret getting one. Anyone else in Canada interested in a cage should check them out. I bought my first cage from the states and the second from them. Sure they are cheaper in the states but by the time you pay shipping and handling and exchange they do not come out any cheaper.

http://www.parrotdiseperch.com/parrot/shop_details.php?prod=1155

Oh by the way, 5/8 th inch is not appropriate for parrotlets!

wow thank you for that information! I'll reconsider my budget for the cage. It's not that there aren't any good Canadian shops online it's that I figure with my luck I'll end up finding a bad site and not get what I want. I don't do a lot of online shopping so it's nerve racking to me. And, you know it's funny because half of my family live in the States (I'm not close to them physically or relation wise)...So that rules out shopping through them. I will check out PP because you've had good experience with them.

I have to say I am not impressed with "Living World" cages. I got one for my Healey as a starter cage and to use as his sleep cage and I was not impressed. I had to take the whole cage apart to clean it each day. One of the clips broke right away. The bottom portion is slanted plastic which a bird can not climb on so a non-flighted bird has nothing to grab to get up to the top of its cage and the food is at the bottom of the cage so they have to go down there to eat. Plus the birds do not know the plastic is there and run into it. There were many things designwise wrong with that cage. The dishes however were not that style. Since Healey can no longer fly, I bought him a smaller simpler cage that he can easily climb around in for his sleep/travel cage. Geez that sounds awful about the cage - did you tell the company? I wonder if they even test their designs beforehand? Food bowls are a very important thing to consider since we have to wash them and fill them daily. How is it Healey can't fly anymore?

[Exoteric]

Hmmm I just checked out Parrotdise Perch and it looks like I would have to pre-order it...I don't have enough time for that.


Double Flight Cage

Special order cages are normally available within four weeks of ordering. Please give us ample time to get your cage by ordering at least 6 weeks in advance. We only request payment or deposit when WE place the order with our supplier.

[Jinx n Noodle]

I haven't seen any A&E cages in person, so I can't tell you anything about quality, but from what I hear, people are happy with that company. I've been very happy with HQ and Kings cages, which is what I always get.

The stand between the 2 cages is different in that the A&E cage has a shelf. Having a shelf is nice, but I'm not sure if the shelf on the A&E cage will be that helpful since it's so short, can't fit as much stuff in it. I had a regular flight cage with a shelf under the cage with the stand, it was very nice and good storage space. And to be honest, with my Kings double stacker cage, there isn't really anything that I can fit underneath anyway... my other cages, I have things just sitting under their cages (ie. garbage can, playstand, etc). I think the shelf also makes the A&E cage slightly taller, which makes the consideration: can it fit through doorways fully stacked (mine barely fits through doorways when I have to move the cages around) and how tall is everybody (reaching for the top cage can sometimes be difficult... I mean, I can open the door and change out the food and reach about 1/2 up the cage by standing up close and I'm 5'4", anything above that, I need a step stool; so when the birds fly to top of the cage, I'm running for the step stool so that I can reach them or when cleaning the cage).

[Exoteric]

I agree, I don't know how much use I would get out of a small shelf that the A&E has.I would get one of those under the bed bins. I am 5 foot 5" (but I have a short reach). I had to do a side by side here just for fun. The KC is 1 1/2 inches shorter, which as you pointed out makes better sense if you need to move the cage through a door frame. I hear ya about the step stool..I'm in the same boat. However, my husband is 6 foot 1" and has long arms so I think I'll get him to assist (sometimes) LOL

A&E
Exterior Dimensions: 73.5" H x 32" W x 21" D
Total Height; 73.5 inch = 6.125 feet
Interior height of each cage; 27.5"

King Cages
Exterior Dimensions: 72" H x 32" W x 21" D
Total Height; 72 inch = 6 feet
Interior height of each cage; 26"

[LittleGems]

After further thinking...I think I am gonna stick to the A&E. It is cheaper and is slightly taller per cage. With the placement I tend to use for dishes, the seed guards probably would not help any. And my conures love to THROW their food LOL

My triple-stacked breeder cages are over 6' high so I am used to standing on a stool to check the nest box etc on the top cage.

Now I just need money...sigh

[Exoteric]

After further thinking...I think I am gonna stick to the A&E. It is cheaper and is slightly taller per cage. With the placement I tend to use for dishes, the seed guards probably would not help any. And my conures love to THROW their food LOL

My triple-stacked breeder cages are over 6' high so I am used to standing on a stool to check the nest box etc on the top cage.

Now I just need money...sigh

I know it's around 40$ difference (plus duties & fees). In this case I think it's all about preference right and choosing what works for us and our birds. Like I said, my kids and I are dropping more seed than the birds are lol. They cock their head sideways when thy hear the seeds hitting and bouncing on the floor. Next on the "to buy list" ...a vacuum broom.;)

[Jinx n Noodle]

LOL! That's what my dogs are food, the go into the bird room and eat the bird seed... mostly they like the Grey's pellets, larger and crunchier!

[Jinx n Noodle]

I meant, that's what my dogs are for, not food...

[Exoteric]

LOL! That's what my dogs are food, the go into the bird room and eat the bird seed... mostly they like the Grey's pellets, larger and crunchier!

My chihuahuas are good but not that good. :)

So, I happened on a youtube video someone made regarding the A&E model..I asked her what the mechanism was to secure the cages together (if they were pins like the KC) she answered this;

It has screws, not pins, that hold everything together. The directions were a little odd but I was still able to put it together just fine and I am not the most mechanically inclined (I once put a futon together with parts upside down...and a little grill disaster too....and I also think a meat tenderizer doubles as a hammer sometimes in a pinch...). The base is not attached, the double cage sits on it and it kept from moving by two little bumps that you have to make sure line up