2 or 1

[catfish]

Okay here is the deal. I'm in college and I'm gone during the day for a good chunk of time. I'm also at home studying most days and the birds get time out of the cage 5 days a week. My quakers and p'let seem to be doing great. No feather plucking. No aggression. Very little shouting for the most part.

My question is, should I get Mr. Gelato a little girlfriend? I don't want to on one side because I like the fact he is bonded to me and wants to spend time with me. He often goes with me to work and gets to show off his tricks. He gets to come out and play and seems to be happy. I always hear him playing and giving me his opinion.

My biggest worry is that I'm going to come home and find one the p'let's missing a leg. A little male came in to my job and had to be euthanized because his female bit his leg off. :eek: Is this a freak accident? I don't want to put him at risk, or a little female. Do you think the benefits would outweigh the risk? Gah. Decisions.

[ArtS]

Catfish,

Though I haven't absolutely proven it yet, I strongly suspect that my female has a lot to do with my male's plucking. I believe that if you get birds with the right personalities, there is an advantage but if they don't click perfectly, it can be a significant problem.

I've heard of nightmare situations as well, but of those on this board I think my two have the most issues and I'm still happy to have both.

Regards,

Art S.

[catfish]

It's just one of those things where I'm just so torn. i see the benefits of having a friend for him, but I see the potential risk. I have the space for a second cage that is not the issue. I already have a spare cage. It's not as big as the fight cage, and at this point I could not fit another flight cage into my little space.

I just don't know what would be best. It would be one thing if he seemed unhappy, but he is always playing and chirping. That's the hard part. I would just die if a female bit his leg off or if he attacked the little female. GAH~

[pudsli]

hi catfish.
go for it.
i got mr pickle a girlfreind who is a spectacled parrotlet, he is a celestial.
they were seperated for a few day's, then my wife put them in together.
even tho she is smaller than him she can hold her own in a squable . they have one now and then.
other than that they get on really well.
preen one another, sleep together and eat together.
i have had no problems with my 2 .
get one and give it a go.
all the best steve.

[catfish]

I'm leaning more to getting one. even though he is happy, I'm sure it would be nice to snuggle with someone else when I'm not at home and when it is night time.

There is like a 80% chance of me getting one at this point in time.

[AndreaFahy]

I think it is MUCH kinder to keep all parrots in pairs. The only species I am reluctant with is the cockatoos.

Parrotlets are known to be aggessive and territorial, but they are so easy to pair.

The biggest issue I have seen (when people say they can't be housed as pets in pairss) is when people, individuals, breeders, shops, etc, use cages that are way too small!!!!

I recommend NOTHING smaller than an 18 x30 x 18. Even this can be a tad too small once you pack their cage full of the necesseties.

[ArtS]

I agree with Andrea on big cages, especially for two,

Here are some options:

http://birdcages4less.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=B/PROD/Small_Bird_Cages/PA5719

This one is similar to mine:
http://www.americas-pet-store.com/details/prodid/738.html

By the way Andrea, do you sell cages through your site? The section seemed empty when I clicked the cage link.

Regards,

Art S.

[AndreaFahy]

Art,

We currently do not have any cages for sale on our website. I am doing a site redesign and just have not gotten around to it!

Also, I have to be pushy in saying that having a second bird to complete a pair should not be considered a personal decision. Parrots are not domesticated animals and have instinctual and natural need that must be met in order to provide for them adequately. It is very sad, in my opinion, to deprive them of such an important instinctual necessity.

When we adopt a bird out, if single, it is signed in the adoption paperwork that the adopter agrees to locate a same species, opposite gender mate. I see it as just important a need as a well rounded diet, flight (exercise) foraging, etc.

[Pado]

I voted: Yes, the benefits FAR out weigh the risks -

Even though I agree with what Andrea said about all birds needs should be met with a species appropriate mate and I personally would never keep a single P'let again - I don't believe all Parrotlet owners should rush out and get their P'let a mate. Doing that may not be beneficial to either bird if the owner is not DILIGENT about the proper care that is needed in keeping two of these birds housed correctly. Cage size for two of these birds is EXTREMELY important but is only one aspect of keeping a pair - some others are the appropriate toys and food and out of cage time etc - They need to be watched closely for any signs of agression or fustration towards each other or just in general. I could go on and on but you get my point.

I don't believe all people are willing to do this for the birds life which we all know can be very long. If they end up in too small of a cage or the owner loses interest in them and just leaves them day in and day out - YES you could end up with a dead mate or a foot bitten off etc.

I had family stay just this weekend and while one of them was up talking to my birds in their cage my Female lunged at my male - so hard that it knocked him from the perch - I HAD NEVER seen her act agressively if anything I would have expected it the other way round - HIM doing it to her. - He looked as shocked as I did. But just having someone up close to the cage that she didn't know was enough for her to take out that fustration on her mate - Now five minutes later they were grooming each other again and all is well in their world. But her getting fustrated or territorial about my family member up close to their cage was enough for her to bite her mate who she loves very much. No one was allowed to go up to their cage for the rest of the weekend. But this is the type of stuff you need to watch out of.

All that being said - I believe in keeping them in Pairs - as I voted in the pole - the benefits FAR out weigh the risks but they must be kept by diligent owners.

Arts posting on the cages: I highly recommend.

[catfish]

Time I'm not concerned with because of the amount of time I spend at home studying, which won't change in grad school or during my intern. Money isn't that much of an issue because I can buy the cage first and pay that off over 2 months, then a female for Gelato. Vet bills aren't a concern since I work for my vet and I'm allowed to be charged. Ive just been debating about the risks and benefits with myself for a while now.

[Pado]

catfish - seeing the birds you already have and working for a Veterinary Clinic I think you are the perfect candidate for keeping a pair of Parrotlets - (you're more qualified than I am ;) ).

Just note they will bond to each other. You can still interact with them (assuming they both are hand raised tame Plet's) but they will become the pair and you will become another flock member. You will have privileges as a flock member but will not be their main focus. At times they won't want you interacting with them at all and will show you with their fluffing up and verbal bashing and at times they will seek you out for interaction with them.

My opinion from having a single Parrotlet and then adding a mate is the birds are much happier with another member of their species. You will be able to see it when they interact with each other.

My main focus now on my "bird time" is to take them out and watch them together on their play stand. I don't need to interact with them they are so amusing together.

I get enough knowing they are happy together and get my "bird fix" from watching them and the icing is when they let me into their world :)

[catfish]

See the funny thing is Gelato doesn't really interact with me that much to begin with. He likes to play on the bird stand and play with his toys.. He'll fly over and land on me and cuddle when he is tired, which is far and few between. That's another reason as to WHY I have been considering a female for him.

When I want a cuddle monster, I go to one of my Quakers. General only wants to sit on my shoulder or sit on the play stand. My other quaker prefers to play on EVERYTHING as does Gelato.

[Pado]

There you go - you'll get your "Bird fix" from General :D and the Parrotlets can have each other - you can keep them tame by taking them from their cages to their play stand and vice versa - they will look forward to you taking them out but will have each other for company.

I take mine out daily and always transport them so they stay tame with me - I also transport them to and from their sleeping cage (which is in a different room) - So they look forward to me taking them out as they know there are going someplace fun and are always willing to come to me.

Art mentioned something in his post about getting the right match. When I was deciding to get a female for my male I was told to let my male pick his female. Unfortunately I wasn't comfortable doing this because of health risks (I purchased a Budgie once that had chlamydia and gave it to my other Budgie). But if you have a breeder or shop that would let you do this it might be something to consider.

They will pick a mate they like and you can be more at ease that the match will work. Otherwise you can watch the birds if you have a few females to choose from and pick the less combative one of the group.

But I would make as sure as I could that they are from different parents.
Check with your breeder. Or if you purchase from a Pet Store choose a different Pet Store. If you get a female from the same store you got your male you could be purchasing a female from the same parents - so technically they could be siblings and in Art's case that didn't work.

Keep us posted on your decision.

[catfish]

I'm going to get into contact with the breeder that I got Gelato from to see what he would be willing to do. He's cheaper than a bird store (bird store sells them for 200, he sold me mine for 70), plus he is a respected veterinarian in the community. He's a little odd, but he loves his flock.

I'll see if he will be willing to let Gelato pick his mate and hopefully they will not be siblings. I know he has several breeding pairs, so we'll see. This will happen over the next few months.

I'm paying off a credit card right now, so I won't be able to purchase a cage until after the school year starts next month. So, it looks like it will be fall before I get one.

I don't like having too much on my credit card at one time because it stresses me out too much. I'm a person that has to do things in stages and everything has to be planed. I have anxiety problems and begin to lose my hair when I feel something is not right... like when i had $900 on a credit card and it was taking me more than 2 months to pay off. If it wasn't for wanting to keep my excellent credit score, I would cancel all but one of them. Blasted credit cards are the devil

[AndreaFahy]

[SIZE=2]catfish - seeing the birds you already have and working for a Veterinary Clinic I think you are the perfect candidate for keeping a pair of Parrotlets

AGREED!!! Pado has stated this perfectly :)

[Pado]

Wow - $70 thats a fantastic price. My local bird store sells them for $199 for the Green's. I got mine for $125 from a breeder - so your pricing is really good :)

Sounds like you are very wise with your finances and very wise to keep your credit scores up - believe me, your credit scores come in very handy throughout your life - Especially when it comes time to purchase a home :cool:

[catfish]

Dr. Huckabee is really fair with his prices. His blues are $400, which is very much out of my price range. Gelato was my only selfish purchase imo. I bought him because I wanted a small bird to play with, and I fell in love with the description of the p'lets. My partner also has a dog that is not used to other animals and I wanted a bird that would be noisy, but not screaming and scaring him. Gelato was never left outside of his cage when the dog is out, and the dog is locked up when we are not home so he can't get to the cage. My partner's dog is now used to Gelato being there off and on and could care less, so now Gelato and General are now going with me so he gets used to multiple animals being around him.

General my quaker kept getting returned to Petco for behavior issues... ie flying away from owners and screaming. Crabby was a stray that was brought into my job and the onwner wanted him out ASAP because of contstruction and lack of space. Right now he is quarantine at my house and not happy about that. General and Crabby call back and forth ALL day long, which drives my cats crazy. Also, all my kitties were strays that were brought in and I took into my home.

So that's why I feel Gelato was my selfish buy. I purchased him because I wanted him and that was the only reason. So I kind of feel guilty, but I'll get over it when I get him a huge cage. Right now he is in a 30 inch flight cage, 18 height x 18 width which sits on my dresser. Once I get the cage paid off I'll buy him a girlfriend once I get the OK by Dr. Huckabee, who really wont mind I think. He knows I don't have time to breed them, nor want to, plus I work with an old friend of his that gave me a good recomendation to him.

[Pado]

The mutations at our local Bird Shop go for $399 so thats the same. I'm partial to the Greens - Greens always been my favorite color.

We're all allowed a selfish purchase from time to time :p So Gelato is lucky you were being selfish that day :D

How much longer will you have the rescue Quaker in quarantine? - How do you think the General will react to him when they meet?

[catfish]

Crabby will be in quarantine for another 3 weeks. I think General will be okay with him. THey have been calling back and forth all this time and General is very interested in what is going on in that room. So, I think it will be an easy transition for General... for the most part. THey will have separate cages, but when I get one out, they will both be out.

[BUUZBEE]

i keep pairs of each bird type i have, 1 male & 1 female

[Sally]

I voted for personal decision. As long as one Parrotlet has a correct, very large and wide cage with all of the toys, swings, perches, and food it needs. Playstands, etc. also.

Only then do you need to get a new bird. Make sure the first one is in a good place first.

[sueanno1189]

I'm ready to be the oddball :p It doesn't sound to me like Gelato is lonely. I think it is one thing to have a single bird at home all day alone and another thing to have a houseful of animals/birds. It seems as though your relationship with Gel, i.e., taking him to work, etc. is fun for him and you. "Perfect world" - absolutely get a mate immediately, but it doesn't sound like an "immediate" need to me. I don't know your circumstances, i.e., age, career goals, but take it from an old lady....pace yourself when it comes to acquiring more animals.

[catfish]

I'd like to think my parrotlet is in a good place. His cage isn't as large as yours Sally, but he seems happy.

He's got 2 areas of water, and 2 different cups of food. One cups contain a seed mix w/ pellets, the other cup is natural pellets with dried vegetables, his favorite is the peas. He's got a coco hut that I put Lefeber's nutra berries in as a treat. He's got various perches to exercise his feet, 2 are the wood ones, one is an enchanted brach with feet cushions on it, and another is a rope perch. In his cage he has 3 swings with toys built in on them. And finally many toys that get rotated in and out. He's allowed out play on his play stand.

Like I said, I think he is happy... he doesn't pluck, he eats and drinks, seems happy to play with all his toys.

[Sally]

I have a cage that is even larger than the one you have right now, that is for my bathroom. A place she can play in while I bathe or get dressed. I know the toys it can hold, can't hold any nice big swings or many rope perches, abacus, orbit toy, shaggy swing, big toys. I just know how Chipper and other p'lets love and need room. I couldn't believe the difference in her when we got the big cage. Just trying to help out with ideas since I have had both sizes.

[AndreaFahy]

I like to constantly find ways to improve the lives of my birds. If I see they are happy and content, I know I am doing a good job. However, I am always looking for ways to enrich their lives even more :)

I kept single parrots for several years, all content and happy. Now that we are pairing everyone, I could not imagine going back to keeping singles. Their lives have just blossomed into something that otherwise they would not have every experienced.

[Sally]

Nothing wrong with two, I just want them to have all they need first before more birds are added. A small cage for one bird isn't good, but for two birds, that could be very bad.

[Pado]

From reading his posts I believe catfish understands the cage requirements when he adds his female. I think the size he has now for a single bird that has out of cage time is great - its a 30x18x18 - I think a single bird can be quite happy in that size. He's mentioned purchasing a larger cage when adding the female.

Everyone has different ideas and requirements for their birds - I prefer to leave a lot of flight room in my cage and I only put about 5 to 7 toys at a time in the cage - preferring to rotate them. I don't like it cluttered and prefer room for flight. My birds interact with each other more than their toys anyway :D

Also I can vouch for what Andrea says - my birds life was definitely enriched when his girl came along :p

[Pado]

I don't know your circumstances, i.e., age, career goals, but take it from an old lady....pace yourself when it comes to acquiring more animals.


This is an excellent point from sueann (see I didn't say "an old lady" :D )

I never really gave it much thought but our age should be taken into account when adding a young Parrot to our life -

These guys can live up to 25 to 30 years and we need to make sure we are around for the end of that life or have provisions made. Something for us all to think about :eek:

Even for the younger of us - life changes and family and kids etc enter the picture and priorities change.

BTW This post isn't meant for anyone in particular :rolleyes:

[AndreaFahy]

I just want them to have all they need first before more birds are added. A small cage for one bird isn't good, but for two birds, that could be very bad.

Exactly Sally - thank you!

[AndreaFahy]

Yes, there are many things to consider when adding a new animal to one's life.

Have you mentioned how old your parrotlet is?

When we consider an addition to our flock it is not the addition of just one bird. Like right now we may be taking in a large macaw. Chances are his cage is not what I would want him in, he has no mate so that would mean two more birds (b/c I feel that strongly about pair keeping) and then vet bills for the duration of those two birds lives.

BUT - this bird is rather young compared to myself. He is only six and has the potential of a sixty-eighty year life span which bumps me to 80-100 years old! How many people that age are able to care for anything! AND I don't plan to have children...hmm...but in our case we plan to incorporate a permanent sanctuary in our non-profit for birds that cannot be placed and for our birds when we are too old, this is where our birds would go and we would have someone take over the non-profit when that time came.


SO - if your fella is an older parrotlet, aim for a hen that is close in age - for the benefit of each other living together longer and for the benefit of you not having a single, lonely parrotlet down the road when one that might be older passes away leaving the younger of the two.

[catfish]

I believe, as do many of the people that own birds and seen my home, as does my veterinarian, and the people that recommended me to the breeder that I provide a good life for my birds. My birds have not had any problems that I have not been able to deal with and I try and provide as much time out of the cage as I can, some weeks they get more, some weeks they get less. My priorities are my education and my pets. My education is what is going to be able to buy them larger cages and toys in the future at one time.

I AM getting a larger cage once I get my female. I have already decided this. This thread has evolved from should I get two, which has been established to be a good idea, to which should i get first. . . should I get a female first allow them to get to know them, and then get the cage once I know they can be housed together easily, or should I get the cage first and then bird. If I get the cage first, that means 4-5 months before I even consider another parrotlet, If I get the bird first that means only 2-3 months before getting the larger cage. I don't plan on just shoving them into one cage and saying "tough boogies, like each other," but If they make it a month or two before the larger cage arrives and are happy with each other I would be happy too. I don't want Gelato unhappy.

I cannot get both cage and bird at the same time. This causes me too much anxiety to have that much on a credit card at one time, I have to do things in stages. Thats just the way I am.

Furthermore, my cage has several toys in there. I prefer to rotate my toys as well becaue Gelato likes to flap his wings and fly back and forth. Outside of his cage, he darts back and forth all the time. I prefer to rotate my toys and allow him room to move.

[memmey]

LOL I'm not laughing at you Catfish, I'm laughing cause the P'lets having a BIG cage is mentioned ad nauseum. I think it's funny if you read back throught the posts at how many times having BIG cage is mentioned. I counted them once and decided I didn't want Art getting on to me so I decided not to joke about it.
Catfish take care of your little bird and if you want another then get one. I never thought you were gonna stick them in a shoe box .LOL....
A little p'let that is loved and handled can surley survive with out a cage the size of the super dome. Just love your little bird. Not every human lives in a perfect world but if they are loved they are fine.
Don't get your feeling hurt..no one here is an Avian Vet that I know of.
Well I like to think that I am smarter than Art....and Pado sometimes.

[Sally]

I and others have just seen SO many P'lets in small cages and we know how much better they do in a large cage.

When people have problems, the first things to look at is the cage/toys, sleep and food.

[catfish]

After talking with some people I've made my decision on what I think is best for my bird.

Everyone has their opinions as to what they think is best. I'm doing what I think is best through the advice of my friends and my vet.

[AndreaFahy]

I hope I never came across as rude, pushy, judgemental. I thought this thread was about whether or not to get a second parrotlet.

Bear in mind that these discussions and responses are sometimes overall responses to benefit EVERYONE that reads it, thus many members feel the need to over-explain things (to make sure visitors don't just see "get two parrotlets" and then make a stupid decision on how to house them" These discussions are great ways to educate so many more people than those involved.

Anyway, now I feel that this discussion was more intended on "what to get first" Not "should I get a second Parrotlet" and I am sorry if my replies never gave you the advice you were looking for.

[AndreaFahy]

My question is, should I get Mr. Gelato a little girlfriend?

My biggest worry is that I'm going to come home and find one the p'let's missing a leg.


Okay, this is why I was replying in the fashion that I have. Your question was "should I get a mate" and your concern was along the lines of the birds injuring one another.

So yes, this discussion had to be based heavily on cage size, b/c that is generally the only thing that causes parrotlets to act out in mate aggression.

[Pado]

catfish - I hope I didn't make you feel like you weren't providing a good home for you birds. On the contrary, I feel like you are a very responsible bird owner and a perfect candidate for adding a mate for Gelato. I hope you keep us updated as your plans unfold.


Memmey - I'll give you that one ;) .... although I'm catching up :D :D :p

[Sally]

Thanks Andrea. People don't realize the importance of cage size. I would be afraid of a bird getting hurt or plunked.

[ArtS]

Memmey,

How come you are always smarter than me but only smarter than Pado 'sometimes'???:D :D :D

Regards,

Art S.

[Pado]

Cause Art ... just cuz' :p