Death and Life?

[OwenL]

I've had Blue for a little more than 2 months now and today I got the shock of my life.
Yesterday was another normal day. I spent the night playing with Blue before his bed time. This morning, before i went to work, He was still asleep as usual in his normal spot within his cage.

However, when i got back home around 1130 am, I found him lying on the bottom of his cage with his neck crooked and his eyes closed. At first I thought he had passed away by falling and breaking his neck. I took him out of his cage and he opened his eyes but still unflinching. He felt a little cool not as warm as i thougth he should be. Then his neck eventually eased and straightened up. Eitherway, he showed no will to live. He just looked like he was dying. I immediately put wrapped him inside a terry cloth to keep him warm but still no movement and at one point i thought he died. I eventually had to leave him to my mom because i had to go in for work.

The surprise came when I left and my mom texted me while i was at work. She said Blue eventually opened one eye.. then the other and slipped out of the cloth i wrapped him in and went straight to my mom as if nothing happened. He stayed with her cuddled in her hands and pooped. Then she said that he was "talking" to her and played in his new basket/nest that she made for him.

Once I got home, he looked fine. As if nothing ever happened. Now I checked his poop earlier and thought what was wrong? His poop looked normal. He was eating fine the night before. He is by himself in my room. He's isolated from Chibi (my parakeet) and Kiwi (my lovebird) I acquired all three of them at the same time from the same person who kept them in the same cage 2+ months ago.

My mom said that he was playing a really bad trick of play dead on me. I mean Blue knows how to "go to sleep" on his back and stay still but I was so worried, I was ready to bring him to a vet (even though I don't know where i would've gone to).

Has anyone had this type of experience with your bird before?

[unpoquito]

I'm wondering if he was having a seizure or in a coma. I would still take him to an avian vet right away! I hope he's going to be okay!

[chapala]

What you described sounds much more serious than a trick. I'd be inclined to think of a possible seizure, but you would need to have him checked out by an avian vet to see if you can get a diagnosis. There are meds to treat birds subject to seizures if that turns out to be what it was.

Hope he's okay, and it never happens again!

[OwenL]

thank you so much for that suggestion. I will go ahead and look for an avian vet around here to diagnose him.

edit: actually before i do that, what are the costs of going to one? for a checkup or any of that matter? reason being is that our dogs vet also owns larger parrots and if i can somehow reduce my spending by getting him seen there, i'd go ahead.
Also, is there avian pet insurance of some sort?

[chapala]

A good avian vet does not necessarily need to be a Certified Avian Vet, but one who does see birds regularly as part of his/her vet practice and keeps up to date on the field of avian medicine. Vet fees vary a lot, so you would have to ask the cost when calling for information or an appointment. You certainly could talk to your dogs' vet and ask if he or she treats parrots regularly. If not, maybe that vet could recommend someone to you.

I think there is pet insurance available but I don't know a thing about it!

[Bodie]

I have VPI insurance on Bodie. They are the only company I have found that insures avian's and exotics.


www.petinsurance.com (http://www.petinsurance.com)

[OwenL]

Thank you again. I actually ended up stopping by the breeder i got him from while on my way to an emergency vet check up. He advised me not to go anymore and instead told me to get tetracyclin at a bird farm nearer.
His "diagnosis" is that Blue may have gone through shock. For the past 3 days the temps around here have gone from 70 to 30 degrees within the same day. I don't keep Blue outside but we don't use heater inside the house either so that may have been a cause for the shock. He also said to keep him wrapped up and kept warm, if possible under a heat lamp. When Blue gets back up he told me to administer the tetracycline via his water to help manage/kill any bacteria that may have gone in to attack his immune system while he was down. He told me that if I had gone to the vet, they would not hav ebeen able to do anything at the time and would've sent me home with medications if i could afford it at that time. Well good to say that Blue is up and eating right now. I've given him water with the tetracycline in it. I'm hoping he will be ok. I'm keeping him under a heatlamp. He also told me to leave it on overnight as he's noticed that 2-5am is when it is coldest over here and even the slightest change in temp will trigger that shock.

I never knew he'd have this much knowledge over the birds. then again I couldn't argue with him since he's had plenty more years than i have and he appears to be connected to most of the avian vets around me so he's figured out what symptoms indicate which illnesses. He actually told me that I was lucky to have Blue survive the predicament as Parrotlets seem to be very fragile in that aspect (quick weather changes).

[Bodie]

I would still take Blue to the avian vet for a complete check up. It is always good to have that done. Also I would not give over the counter drugs at all. It is best to have the vet look at him and advise. You have to be careful with the dosage on these little guys.

[Vegasmom]

Owen, the problem is giving tetracycline in the water is not the best advice. You see, you can't possibly know how much antibiotic the bird is getting at one time or how often. Antibiotics should and are supposed to be given at regular doses at regular times for an exact number of days. Other wise it does no good and makes it harder to treat with antibiotics the next time it really needs them. You can't just give antibiotics to treat anything, especially if it was shock due to cold temperatures , as the breeder suggested, as they are used for various infections. It does seem to me that it may have had a seizure, however there are a hundred possible explanations of what caused it and only a diagnosis by a vet MAY find out the problem or if there still is one.

Also I dont think keeping a parrotlet, a lovebird, and a parakeet in the same cage is a good idea unless the previous owner just did it while handfeeding or weaning babies. I don't know if that's still the case or they each have cages? It sounds like Blue is in his own one now? Once they start reaching sexual maturity it's a disaster waiting to happen.

[raiven]

The reason there are so many antibiotic resistant bacteria out there is from the type of indiscriminate use of antibiotics that your breeder is advocating. Maybe he is well know by avian Vets for the wrong reasons? I would still have your little bird checked out properly.

[AcxiDenTe]

Also, on the same note, to preventing anything from worsening, I'd make sure he's at least drinking water. Alot of parrotlets won't drink tainted water, thus won't be drinking anything at all. So keep an eye on that if you end up keeping the medicine in his water.

[zoesmom]

I'm just going to come right out and be blunt...It sounds to me like you are substituting the trip to the breeder for a trip to a real veterinarian...maybe due to finances, maybe due to wanting to help your bird, but deeming it "just a bird" and therefore not worth speinding the money to get real help for your bird. Just because your breeder breeds birds, it does not make him capable of diagnosing and treating birds...avian vets spend years in school to do what they do...and that is the only person who should be prescribing antibiotics. The parrotlet is your bird, so do what you will with him, but if you are going to go off on your own and treat him, then be ready to accept the consequences.
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but it angers me when one does not take care of their pet...we need to be responsible for our birds--they rely on us as their caretakers to provide for their every need--including health care. If you can't afford health care then you need to start a little savings on the side...maybe give up soda or mcdonalds or whatever other things you can cut to have a little "nest egg" built up for situations such as this.
Jusy my honest opinion...
Cindy & Zoe

[OwenL]

Thank you for all the responses

To note: I kept the 3 species in 3 different cages. I never once did they house them in the same cage. Yes the previous owner did house the parrotlet and lovebird together but i didn't do the same thing.

On another note: I am so very aware of what i was doing.

Zoesmom, Maybe you are in a much better position financially and emotionally than I am but I would never question or at least state that you don't take care of your own birds. What I did, I did with what I could manage with.

"but deeming it "just a bird" and therefore not worth speinding the money to get real help for your bird."
"but it angers me when one does not take care of their pet"

Thank you soo much for making me feel ever more guilty than I do now because it really helps me out. Do you really think i'd take the time and day to post here if I didn't care about Blue? Blue was MY baby. He was not just some bird. He was not just a pet. He was a sentient being who tried his hardest to understand me.

and Yes finances did affect my decisions. I tried to wait til I got paid today, which is why I took him to the vet this morning. They kept him there and I was ready to give my whole paycheck just to get him his care but I got a call earlier tonight from his vet telling me how he slowly eased off and passed away in an incubator and with a respirator attached.

So thank you Zoesmom because I know I'm a horrible companion for Blue. Thank you because you've showed me that I do not have responsibility and that I am incapable of sentiment.

To all else who have at least tried to advice me without attacking, I am very greatful for your responses.

BTW, the doctor and the breeder refer each other and just because a breeder doesn't have the degree doesn't mean he doesn't know his own birds. Just because I don't have the degree a doctor has doesn't mean I don't know the symptoms of having a cold or a flu.

R.I.P Little BOO BOO (Blue)
Oct 2008 - Feb 12, 2008

[zoesmom]

I'm very sorry for the loss of your little Blue...and had he seen a vet sooner, he still would have probably died because the episode he had that you first described sounded pretty serious. I don't mean to say you didn't care for him or didn't take care of him...
I just get very frustrated when people pass on vet care and substitute with randomly giving antibiotics.
I think your breeder gave you really bad advice. It is absolutely not good to just randomly give antibiotics without a diagnosis, or without the knowledge of a veterinarian.
One thing I can say for sure is that a lot of lovebirds are dying suddenly from polyoma virus right now. Parrotlets are generally resistant to polyoma virus, but if the lovebird has it, and was housed in the same cage at the breeders with the lovebird, it is very possible that this is what caused Blue to get sick and die. An avian vet who has been told that a bird has been housed with a lovebird would probably have picked up on that right away, and may have started proper treatment, or would have known what to test for.
I'm sorry for being blunt and harsh...it just really upsets me that people will take their dogs and cats to a vet, as well as their larger parrots, but often pass by the little guys, and try to treat them at home with over the counter stuff on the advice of someone without a degree. A good breeder would have said to get him to a vet right away. I am really sorry for your loss, I did not mean to insinuate that you didn't care for your little guy.
Cindy

[chapala]

Owen, I'm very sorry you lost your little Blue. It was obvious that you cared about him.

[jodeg]

Owen, I'm so very sorry to hear of the loss of Blue. Our thoughts are with you at this sad time.

[unpoquito]

I too am very sorry for your loss of your baby Blue. I know how sad you must be.

[Bodie]

So sorry Owen to read of Blue's passing. It sounded like either a stroke or seizure. Fly Free Little Blue.

[lineola]

So sad to hear your poor little Blue passed away :( ...

I have VPI insurance on Bodie. They are the only company I have found that insures avian's and exotics.

www.petinsurance.com (http://www.petinsurance.com)


I have VPI insurance on my two lineolated parakeets It came in very handy two months ago, when I had to take Rylin to emergency for a hemorrhaging foot. Of course you still have to pay the vet first, then get reimbursed by VPI. To me the insurance is worth it to just know at any time I have the means to provide my birdies with good care.

Maddie

[BeakerLuvsBunsen]

Terribly sorry to hear of your loss...

[musicjan]

Owen, I too am so sorry for the passing of your sweet bird.

[OwenL]

Thank you everyone for the condolences.

Zoesmom, I'm sorry for overreacting. I was unaware of the hurtful things I said to you, but just know it was out of reaction under stress. I just didn't feel that it was the time and space to be criticizing. Let's put that in another thread. Especially next time someone else comes along with the same situation. There is really no way we could know how much the other person might care about his or her "kid" (that's what they called Blue at the vet's hospital) and we also don't know what circumstances they may be under.

I'm just glad that Blue is resting now. He was a fighter afterall. It was just too tiring to try and keep coming back. I guess it was his way of telling me that he's not leaving even if he's physically gone.


On a side note: The vet couldn't determine the cause of death. Although I again spoke to my friend (i'll stop calling him my breeder) and after giving him more detail on how Blue lived, he summarized that it could have come from not just one condition.

Symptoms may have included:
*I thought that Blue was clumsy, but at 4 months he shouldn't be having a hard time gripping onto branches and fingers.
*He liked to sleep a lot (I thought that was normal for them, but I guess not).
*He almost always ran into a wall, a door, anything whenever he tried to fly. (Maybe he had head trauma?)
*After living in my room with heat on at constant, I moved him to the living room, which is cooler than my room.

My friend said that if birds are acclimated to the weather outside, you can move them inside where it is warmer but once you move them in, you cannot move them back out where it is cold without the bird suffering/perhaps even dying.

*He would sneeze, not often but he did it.

Maybe these were symptoms, but maybe they weren't. I'll never know for sure, but one thing is sure, I had fun with Blue while he was around. He changed my perception about bird-keeping and has made me interested in parrots.

Btw, musicjan I think I have the same play pen. Does yours come with a ladder and a rope with a plastic toy thing? if So, how do yuuo clean it? I wanna be able to use it for my remaining lovebird and parakeet.

[zoesmom]

Thank you everyone for the condolences.

Zoesmom, I'm sorry for overreacting. I was unaware of the hurtful things I said to you, but just know it was out of reaction under stress. I just didn't feel that it was the time and space to be criticizing. Let's put that in another thread. Especially next time someone else comes along with the same situation. There is really no way we could know how much the other person might care about his or her "kid" (that's what they called Blue at the vet's hospital) and we also don't know what circumstances they may be under.



No need for apology Owen--I to am sorry for getting on a soapbox, and you are right--it did not belong in that thread and I could have addressed it differently as well, so it is I who apologize and I am so very sorry that you lost your little Blue. Your right-these little guys bring so much happiness!!
If you are able, I do think it would be good to get your Lovebird tested for polyoma virus, and maybe get him vaccinated as well against it...it seems that it is something endemic to lovies.
You did your best for your little Blue, and I know that he knew he was loved while he was in your care.
Cindy

[raiven]

Honestly, Owen, it sounds like your bird may have been sick from the time you got him. If I were you, I would ask my Vet if he thought your other birds may have been exposed to something as well. I don't know anything about bird pathology but your Vet would be the best one to talk to about any concerns you may have.

[Py & Cosmo]

Owen,
My condolences to you and your family. I hope your other "fids" stay well.

[ParrotletsRock]

So sorry to hear you birdie passed. I have only had my little boy "Archie for 5 days now and would be devastated if something happened to him...good luck with your other birds.

[musicjan]

Owen, I have found the playground very hrd to clean. So far haven't done as much as I should, probably - except that I do use a dustbuster onthe floor - which is where most of the mess it. Sorry I can't be more helpful.