Medications for life?

[cute_lil_fiend]

Hi there,

I've come to the realization that parrotlets are delicate little things. Although I've read that their lifespans are around 25 yrs, I have yet to hear about one that has survived for that long. It seems that they all expire from illness before that amount of time has transpired, and seem to fall ill more often than other avians. Could it be because we've not yet found the ideal conditions under which they should be kept?

My point in bringing this up is that Jelly has yet again taken ill. Strangely enough, he has no symptoms other than anorexia (he's just not been eating) and has lost weight. He's down from 26g at his heaviest to a meager 22g. We took him to the vet, who gave him a clean bill of health save the weight issue. She said that because the liver support meds helped him get better the first time, the problem might be a chronic liver condition that would require a lifetime of medication.
Now...I wince at this. I would hate to medicate Jelly once a day for the rest of his life. I think it would impact his quality of life and would like to avoid this. There is also the issue of me leaving for grad school and not being able to take him with me, however,if it came down to it, I would definitely put him on medication.

I told the vet that I would hesitate to give him such medications, especially if it would be a lifelong thing.
The thing is that without a definitive diagnosis, I would hesitate to medicate Jelly (and myself). I think alot of times, docs and vets are cautious and likely to be pill-happy if they aren't sure of what they're dealing with.
I think the vet took it as a "I can't deal with the hassel of everyday meds", because the vet tech came back and said she knew a vet that could rehome Jelly. I was like :eek: . I definitely WOULD NOT rehome him. It felt like they were implying that I was an unfit mother LOL, but I do understand what they must have been thinking.

But nyways...back to Jelly. I decided to give him a tube feeding, and then we're carrying on feeding him Harrison's recover formula at home until he puts on weight. From there I think we can run certain diagnostic tests to determine the nature of his illness.

Does anyone here have a bird that is on constant meds? Do you mind sharing what condition and how your bird and you have adapted to the routine? Thanks!

[Mustang99]

I can certainly understand your concern on daily meds. I hope that there are tests that can determine why Jelly is not keeping the weight on. Kiwi is not on daily meds but she keeps getting an infection in her crop (yeast). She will be on meds for 10 days and will be fine for a month or two and then we're back at the vet. Kiwi tolerates taking the meds but I hate having to give them to her since I know that it breaks down the good bacteria and I always follow-up with bene-bac to help with that issue.

I have gone through the whole range of ensuring her cage is always cleaned and water changed through the day to strutinizing her diet. I agree that from my experience she is more tempermental than my budgies and I just spoke to someone who has three larger parrots and it seems they hardly ever go to the vet.

I'm hoping that someone on the forum can respond to your question around daily meds. I hope that you do not have to do that with Jelly and wish you luck in determining what can be done. Please keep us updated on how he responds to the formula.

It's always hard when our little guys aren't feeling 100%. Good luck.

[Pado]

Sorry to hear about Jelly - as Mustang said hopefully somebody with experience will answer you soon - Hopefully Catfish will have some info for you.

As for the question of them living to 25+ years. I read an article that believes the reason most pet Parrots don't live as long as their life expectancy is because of improper breeding and breeding practices - thus less healthy birds flooding the market.

Any Tom, Dick and Harry can decide to let their birds breed and let their offspring breed and so on - unfortunately if the breeding practices aren't top notch it dilutes the stock. I tend to agree with this - I believe only people who are devoted to the betterment of the species they are breeding and do the proper research in matching up birds should be breeding - they should know the health history, the lineage etc of the birds being bred - This would insure healthy stock and healthy offspring but unfortunately this isn't the case. Some breeders are just back yard breeders who breed for fun and know next to nothing about breeding practices and some breed for profit pulling the chicks and hand feeding so the parents lay more. Its no wonder there are so many health issues and plucking issues etc in Pet birds.

Anyhow sorry for going on and on :) I hope Jelly will be okay and sorry to hear your vet took that tone with you.

[chapala]

It is a good question to think about - why do some pet parrots get sick? It seems to me that I hear of a fair amount of illness with parrots. I don't know the answer, but I do think that many parrots are fed poor diets and that may well contribute to lowering their resistance to disease or causing organ failure and other problems. Also, in nature not every chick survives. The parent birds often stop feeding one or more of the weaker chicks. Breeders however hand-feed and try to save all the chicks, and maybe there are health problems creeping in this way.

Hope your P'let gets better, and you don't have to face a life long medication hurdle!
Reta

[lily]

My opinion is that parrotlets do not do well on processed food. Pellets are very often made of corn and soy, neither of which is normally in the parrotlet's diet. Also, any processed food (cooked or baked; containing sugar, flavors, colorings) may harm a bird's health. Another consideration is feeding organic food because it is higher in vitamins and minerals than food grown with chemical fertilizers; and giving purified water rather than tap water. This is just my opinion, influenced by cats and dogs have improved remarkably once they were given a raw diet rather than canned or kibbled food. My bird is much better now that she is on a 95% raw diet.

[cute_lil_fiend]

Thanks all,

He's been gaining a bit of weight but as of now is still not out of the woods.

Lily, I'm really interested in the raw diet. I've heard that cats and dogs that are on it are much healthier because it more closely mimics the diet their ancestors would have gotten in the wild. I've also heard that it decreases the smell that sometimes pets will have...that disctinctive odor hehe. I want to try it for Jelly but I'm not sure where I can find information on the raw diet for parrotlets and wonder if you would mind sharing what you feed your little one.
Thanks!

[chapala]

A "raw" diet for any parrot is the best you can feed them, raw mixed vegetables especially those high in beta carotenes, fruit (fresh, raw), and sprouted grains, seeds and legumes. That's what I feed mine, plus I offer a cooked grain/legume/sweet potato mix in the evening with more of the raw vegetable mix and sprouts. I find that Cello eats his vegetables much better if I run them through a food processor (or you can chop very finely). That way, it's much harder to pick out and toss bigger pieces of vegetables. I make enough for two days, and feed the vegetables morning and late afternoon, along with all the other items.
Reta
P.S. - for an sample of which vegetables are good, here are some that I feed: Kale, collard, mustard greens, dandelion greens, bok choy, carrot tops, broccoli (leaves and sprouts), chili peppers, chayote, zucchini, carrot. For fruit I give a little mango, papaya, banana, organic berries. I aim for a mix of at least 5 different vegetables, daily.

[lily]

My bird gets a seed mixture that is several different kinds of seeds, grains, legumes, nuts, dried fruits and vegetables, herbs, and spices. All of that is raw, although the produce has been dried. I keep it in the refrigerator to insure freshness.

Like Chapala, I give fresh raw veggies and greens every day, in the morning. My bird prefers having them finely chopped, but I am trying to teach her to take bites out of whole leaves so that I can keep them in a tiny vase of water for her-- so they can stay fresh all day. I am experimenting with keeping cooked wheat and oats out of her diet because of a suspected allergy, but she still gets a few cooked beans or peas and maybe a little cooked brown rice with them, but only in the evening (and not every day unless she is molting) because I want her to pig out on those vitamin A rich veggies in the morning when she's good and hungry.

At 4 in the afternoon, I refresh her seed mix. She also gets to go outside with me in nice weather to forage for edible weeds-- right now the chickweed is ready, so she is eating a lot of it right now. Other things we might forage are dandelion greens and blossoms, flower pollen, plantain, edible flowers, and grasses in seed. I hope to get organized enough to sprout her beans (and add other sprouted seeds) so that her diet can be 100% raw.

I hated taking the wheat and oats out of her diet. She loved them, but she is doing better without them I think she either has an allergy to one or both of them, or she just ate too much of them so she wasn't hungry for other foods.


Chapala, do you know if brown rice will sprout?

[lily]

Oh-- she also gets a little fresh fruit every day. Sometimes it is thawed berry, but I count that as fresh anyway.

[chapala]

I have heard that brown rice does not sprout, at least in the time it takes to sprout other grains. However, it is fine to soak overnight and feed. Brown rice is not as nutritious as some of the other grains. You might want to try quinoa (sprouts very quickly after overnight soaking). Wheat can be an allergen, usually oats are not. If you want to try adding oats back into the diet, you can observe her for any reaction. If she's fine after four to seven days of daily feeding (along with all the other food of course), you can keep it in the diet. You might also try spelt and kamut, available at natural foods stores or on-line - they are related to wheat, but are tolerated by some who are wheat sensitive. Hulless barley also is good for sprouting, as are red and white millet, and canary seed.

When you get around to sprouting legumes, just remember they need to have 1/2" tails before being fed, unlike grains and seeds which can be fed after overnight soaking, or best when the root barely starts to emerge from the grain. The recommended legumes for sprouting are mung, adzuki, lentil, whole pea, garbanzo. Other beans shouldn't be sprouted because of toxic substances. Legumes also can be soaked overnight, rinsed and cooked (boiled 10 mins., simmered 20 mins.).
Reta

[lily]

Thank you, Reta. I believe I will try oats again soon. My bird loved them, and historically thay have been used for detoxing. My instinct tells me that it was probably the wheat that was causing problems, not only because it is a known potential allergen, but also because of the way my bird seemed almost addicted to it-- eating large quantities of it instead of her other foods.

I have seen the recommendation to use frozen peas by thawing them in hot water, then feeding without cooking. Because peas are legumes, do you see a problem with this? Also, I notice you do not mention feeding soy to parrotlets. I have researched soy quite a bit, and finally decided against using soy for my bird. What is your opinion?

[cute_lil_fiend]

Another Update:

Jelly has gained quite a bit of weight and now clocks in at a near normal 25 g or so. Between regular feedings of Harrison's recovery formula and switching from a seed to pellet (Roudybush nibbles), we've increased his food intake and subsequently, his weight.

HOWEVER...
He still is very fluffy. Active, but fluffy, which means that something is wrong with him, I think. Just today morning, he wigglenecked and vomited a bunch of white mucous/viscous liquid as he was taken out of his cage. I'm taking him to the vet tomorrow, most likely for blood tests and fecal stains, but I'm concerned that this may be some sort of gastrointestinal infection or problem, or maybe something to do with his liver, since previous tests have shown it to be larger than normal. I'm tired of Jelly being sick and am determined to get to the bottom of this problem soon.

Grrr....

[chapala]

Peas are not a terribly nutritious vegetable. I would opt for more nutrient dense vegetables like those I mentioned earlier. Fresh or frozen peas are immature, and frozen peas already have been cooked, so not a problem to feed them thawed or warmed in hot water. A little would be fine, but I wouldn't count just peas as a nutritious vegetable serving.
REta

[lily]

Thanks, Reta.

Cute lil fiend-- I hope you can get to the bottom of it! I have a friend whose cat is recovering from liver trouble. It is frustrating trying to figure out what made her sick. Her roommate uses hairspray, perfumed products, and dryer sheets, but that is unusual for a cat to get so sick from them-- unless the cat is as sensitive as most parrots! Jelly is very lucky to have someone as alert, caring, and determined as you are.

[Kumiko]

I hope you get through this with Jelly. I agree with losing our little feathered friends by illness.... or by freak accidents. :( It makes me not want to get another bird, but they seem so much like human, I don't think about it.

But in to the veggies-
When I first started out as a bird owner, I used frozen peas and frozen veggies, frozen fruit, and everything. I hear when you cook they loose a bit of nutritional value. Peas... are good, but not good in my opinion. I feel that they are a filler.

Kale, turnip greens, fresh (not cooked) green beans, bok choy, or collards are around a dollar each for a huge stalk here at Walmart. Parsely is only about $1.80... lots of selection--fresh fruits as well. I keep all thick greens and the good stuff in tubberware vegatable savers. Those veggies keep for about 4 weeks! :) Awesome money saver.

Those tubberware vegetable bins are also good fruit saver as well, but I mostly keep the veggies in those and keep fruits in zip-lock bags which stay fresh for a week. It might cost you like 10cents more.... but it is totally worth it, and doesnt really break a 15yr. old's budget. ;)

Frozen veggies... well.... suck. In my own opinion. I will never give my birds that because they seem to like fresh more and frozen foods might have salt... preseratives or something else we don't know about that is not good.

[cute_lil_fiend]

I can't believe it.

Jelly passed away suddenly last night...I didn't even get a chance to say goodbye. =(
This is so devastating, I still can't accept that he's gone. He was my little sunshine and I looked forward to him everytime I came home. I think of him when I think of sunflower seeds and hear him when something random makes a squeeking sound. He was the first animal that showed me I could love something that wasn't human with a fierce deep love and I miss him so much right now.

He passed away the day before his scheduled vet appt. He seemed okay when I left for work in the morning but after my bf found him unresponsive when he came home from dinner he never got better. My bf snuggled him and he passed away quietly in his hands. He said Jelly looked tired...I hope he is in a better place where all his aches and pains are gone.

Rest my little one.

I also would like to thank everyone on this forum for everything that I have learned about parrotlets. I am so happy I let them into my life, but I will not be caring for another one in the near future because I'm just not ready. Therefore I thank all here and say goodbye until perhaps some future time when I am ready again to be owned by another one of these precious little birds.

A heartfelt thanks.

[Mustang99]

I'm so very sorry for your loss. My heart is breaking for you. Rest in peace little Jelly.

[chapala]

So sorry for your loss of Jelly.
Reta

[YWallpaper]

I am so sorry.

[Pado]

I am so sorry to hear about Jelly - my condolences to you and your boyfriend. He put up a brave fight and I am sure he is in a better place and back to his old self. This is very sad news but you did the best you could for him and you should take solace in that.

[Kumiko]

I am so sorry. I like this quote so, I am going to say this:

"For the next time I see you, it will be in the sky. Where you will once again hold your wings up high." quote from poem by andie at birdbytes.

[jodeg]

So sorry for your loss. Some day, we'll see every pet we've ever loved, waiting for us up in Heaven.

[raiven]

So sorry for your loss. I have only had Sadie for a little over 4 months but I was smitten with her from day 1 so I completely understand your devastation at the loss of your little one, cute_lil_fiend. My condolences and I am sure you will find room in your heart for another little fid when you are ready.

[lily]

What a terrible shock for you. I'm so sorry.