two steps forward...three steps back....!

[genie04]

well, we had some bonding progress going with a millet branch yesterday...so this afternoon I thought, I know I'll try some cucumber on the end of a wooden skewer and offer him that ( particularly as he seems to have no idea about other foods apart from seed - not even millet ! )...well ! he freaked out big time at this new introduction into his cage...in the end I withdrew but I've left the piece of cucumber in his cage and he's sat on his high perch eyeing it up suspiciously.

I'm beginning to wonder how hard this is going to be as it seems to me the bird was probably brought up by a breeder who has lots of birds in an aviary possibly and hasn't spent anytime near the birds other than to shove seed in the hoppers as he's been here a week now and although he's made progress he really does seem to spook so easily.

The difference in him compared to other posters on here who have bought birds from reputable breeders is enourmous...some people I notice have birds out of their cages within a week or so....but there's absolutely no way that I can envisage this bird coming out of his cage for months and months !...in fact I just can't believe it'll ever happen !

[hollybean]

I know it's hard- I recently adopted a freinds lovebird who is even worse then your parrotlet. She screams anytime I get too close to the cage and she tries to bite my fingers anytime they are near her.

It's hard- everytime she behaves that way I think about wanting to give up. But then she'll whistle to me from across the room. Our she'll do something cute...

It's important not to give up. And make sure you move slowly. If you push them too hard they'll freak because they've learned to become suspicous of humans for one reason or another. This is the time for trust building to begin. Move your body slowly- never look them in the eyes, and talk sweetly. Try just leaving food in a dish at the bottom of the cage.

The only interaction my love bird had with human hands was when her past owner wanted to get her out of the cage. She would put on work gloves (because Kitty is "bitey") and grab her out of the cage. I'm sure it was a very terrifying experience- hence the hatred for fingers she has right now. Each day I try to get her to eat one sunflower seed from my fingers. It's not much but it's progress none the less.

Good luck! :)
________
CherryCandy (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/CherryCandy/)

[Pado]

What Holly said is very true - don't give up. Some can take months - like you said the ones your are reading about were very well socialized by the breeders. If not well socialized they can take weeks to months.

I had a very tame male and purchased a non-tame female, she was deathly afraid of humans and hands. She tamed down over months just by watching the male interact with us - I never once tried to tame her, I would talk to her a lot but never forced or tried to have her step up etc. She now will fly to us on her own, she loves riding around on shoulders - she will also step up - although, she is still a bit wary of hands. She is not "as" trusting as the male is, she's more of a birds bird but she loves to hang out with us and is always either on us or trying to interact.

Try not to scare him at all - and just work on talking to him etc and trying to get him to come closer to the cage bars to you. Patience is really the key and it can take months.

Both mine are very tame now but if I stick something into their cage they aren't expecting they will freak - so its not just your guy :p If I stuck a cucumber towards them in their cage both of them would freak - because I've never done it and they aren't familiar with it. If I put it on the bottom of the cage and not moved towards them with it they would come to investigate because they are use to me putting objects on the cage floor. Parrots are skeptical of anything they are not familiar with tame or not.

And watch out for the "Hand Fed" line, my female was hand fed but not human friendly - she was hand fed but had no human socialization - she lived with her clutch mates and was grabbed to be hand fed, hence her intense fear of hands - I think she saw the feeding syringe as a friendly object but the hands as grabbing and scaring her.

[Tari]

I know exatly how you feel. Two days ago DoodleBug was nibbling my hand and now he wont even take millet. For now I am having to take a step back cause it is really making me mad.
I know I know that makes me just a horrible person but dang it should not be this hard.

[Pado]

Don't worry Tari - that a normal human response ... you're not horrible :) . It is hard but if we keep looking at it from the birds point of view - imagine you were the bird being kept by the Jolly Green Giant :p

[genie04]

I know...i'm not giving up...In my head I know its incredibly early days to expect a pet shop bird to come round....I really knew deep down when I bought him that this would be the case. I know how you feel tari....because it makes me...not so much mad...( well maybe a bit ! ) but frustrated....for his sake....I just think, come on little chap....trust me and you really will benefit !.....but he's so scared....in actual fact...my daughter is better with him as she perhaps does not have such high expectations....so I've taken a step back and I think I'll let her take over much of the bonding....( she's 12 and seems to have her gt grandfathers knack with birds ! )....

It was just the cucumber really...and I suppose I'm still surprised at their intelligence...I didn't expect him to freak over the cucumber even though I know full well in the dog training world for example that dogs don't generalise...he knew the piece of cucumber was a different scenario....I tried again later with millet and he was fine....I even stroked him with the end of the millet !....but he's not even slightly interested in coming anywhere near us when we coo to him through the bars....although i suppose he doesn't edge away like he did the first couple of days. I have also started putting my hands near to him from our side of the cage...he spends the majority of his time sitting on the top perches ( although less so now than he did )....so I'm slowly, very slowly moving my hand over him and he'll tolerate it...but you can still see he's tensed up ready to fly....and when I'm doing this I'm going so slow I forget to breath !....it really is a mission !.....ha ha !!

[hollybean]

One thing I've noticed with my parrotlets is that they are DEATHLY AFRAID of long, skinny things. For instance if I ever bring a broom or a long peice of wood near them the FREEEEAK OUT. It's like some sort of deep fear they have- I have no idea where it comes from but I just try to be aware of things that set them off and try to avoid bringing them too close.
________
WASHINGTON MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES (http://washington.dispensaries.org/)

[SweetPeasMom]

Hey, dont be so hard on yourself,, Patience patience, You are doing just fine. Keep up the good work!!

[Pado]

SNAKES maybe :eek: -

They are little scaredy cats of new things but when they are use to certain things they see a lot they really settle down. When I first got mine they use to freak out when I brought out the vacuum -now they will fly to my shoulder while I'm vacuuming - I can even vacuum their play stand with them on it and they'll continue cleaning themselves ( well unless the vacuum catches the edge and makes that loud suction noise then they will tense :p ).

[Kumiko]

Are you trying clicker training?

Nar recently posted in the General Talk Category of a video. His parrot in that video bit him a lot, he said drawing blood. And AndeaFahy will tell yo uthe same thing that clicker training is great for introducing birds to new foods. I would Pm her if you are interested. :)

[Ben]

Yes, I've observed the same fear of the broom with our parrotlet. I can't think of what in nature could inspire this particular response, EXCEPT that being the size of a baseball and being in proximity to anything like a bat would be very threatening. Animals can recognize any large object that can be manipulated with malice or carelessness could cause harm. That's my guess. Our bird HATES when I sweep up her mess on her side of the room, even when I'm not so near the cage.

[genie04]

thanks all...guess I'm jut impatient..:)....kumiko...yes, I intend to start clicker training with him soon - I've clicker trained dogs for years so I'm keen to get started with the p'let...but for the moment he's not quite ready...

He's never attempted to bite ( not yet anyway...and hopefull once training is underway he won't either ! )....the problem is he's so scared of everything...

for the time being I've decided to ignore him....often a good ploy with nervous dogs....I'm feeding and watering but other than that I'm going to give him a few more days of leaving well alone ( no hand in the cage training and no talking to him ) so that he understands that we're not interested in harming him....he's at his most relaxed when you go by his cage and don't pay him any attention...( although I always watch him out of the corner of my eye ! )....

so I'm backing off for now....and see where there takes us in a few days.;)

[genie04]

just to estalish...it wasn't a whole cucumber I was introducing into the cage !:eek: ...just a small piece on the end of a piece of dowel...not really that disimilar to a branch of millet...( albeit a half chewed one ! )

[Pado]

It might have looked like a BIG EYE coming at him :D :p

You could put an olive on a dowel and put it towards them and they'd freak if they'd never seen one before. :p

Mother nature programmed them to flee from anything unfamiliar as a defense mechanism.

Nothing to do with this post - but I thought it interesting.
I read, as most of us know that birds are programmed for fight or flight - if given the chance they will always choose flight - actually its more of a reflex not a choice. This keeps them stress free - free flighted birds rarely experience stress because their reflex is to fly and they don't have time to stress. Its only caged birds and birds that are clipped that show signs of stress because they know they can't flee via flight and therefore can't use their reflex and have to deal with the situation - not being able to flee on reflex is unnatural for them.... anyway I thought that was interesting :)

[genie04]

yes pado....fight or flight - and it is something to do with the post really....and very on topic....you're right caged birds don't have the option of flight...so yes, the stress builds up. ( potentially ) hence my complete hands off approach as from the cucumber incident !...dogs are the same....although they're worse as they can bite when they're on lead and don't have the flight option !....

However, birds are new to me....I'm kind of surprised by their intelligence ( which is higher than a dog allegedly )....but then again....given the circumstances....that he;d been used to our hands...used to a stick of millet going towards him....the long cockatil stick with a small piece of cucumber....in theory, shouldn't have initiated such a response. But it did.

Which reinforces my worries that he's one very stressed and unhappy bird who's going to take a long time to bring round. I feel that if birds are going to kep in captivity, they should - for their own good - be handled from an egg (so to speak )...but this poor pet shop bird just wants to fly free. The whole process of taming him is causing him stress - no matter how quietly I approach it...and that's what I can't get my head around...

I'm sort of regretting taking him on...not because if causes me anguish....but because its causing him anguish....in another life he could have been a wild bird flying free with his flock...instead he's stuck with me !!..

I don't know...I suppose you could say if he hadn't ended up with me he might have ended up in a budgie cage and never had any human contact, toys or out of cage free play....that's what we;re aiming for....but this poor little creature has no idea....we love him ( for all the wrong reasons )...but essentially he hates us I think.

[Pado]

I think you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence. He could have ended up in a household that just didn't care and not put the time and effort into him that you are and he would be more miserable in a little Budgie cage.

Look through Sally and Chippers posts. Chipper came to Sally completely a wild child and now they are SO close and Chipper is now one of the tamest and friendliest birds. I have a feeling this is your destiny also.

I'd have to agree with you that Parrots fall into the category of Exotic Pets - the same as Monkeys, Chimpanzees, Lions etc. I think as a whole they are not meant to be pets and would be much better off not being captive. They often develop behavioral and health issues because their emotional, dietary and physical needs are not met.
Unfortunately that I'm afraid may never be the case as they have been kept captive (mostly wild caught) for so long.

All we can do is to provide them the best life we can and meet their needs the best we can and I think yours has found the best home for him. ( So is it Bobo? ... have you named him yet?)

Since you have already talked about pairing your other option would be to find a breeder who hand-raises and works with their chicks to socialize them. If you got a very tame bird you will be able to tame your wild child. They learn by example. Like I posted before my female tamed down just by following the males example. But you would need to be 100% sure the new bird was completely tame and human friendly - If you ended up with another wild child you'd be in double the trouble and it will take much longer :p. And be wary of breeders, I got my bird from a breeder who told me she was hand raised but she neglected to tell me she wasn't hand TAMED. :D

[Sally]

With patience and love, you will be able to give your bird a rich a fun life. Not a life with a wild flock, but a wonderful long life. I know, I think most of us lament the fact that people keep parrots it is sad, but they are here now.

Chipper flies and has a fun life, a rich life. She is so smart and I make sure she is never bored or stressed. She has a great cage full of toys she adores. Lots of playgyms and toys in her playground area too. She bonded to me even though she was a wild little girl when I got her. I enjoyed the process of slowly earning her trust.

She is free in the house most of the time unless I am going in and out of the door or cooking etc. She loves to go in and out of her cage to play and snack on food.

I have found some great things that helped and it has been so rewarding! I have had her more than two years. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sally11/PICT0009500use.jpg

[genie04]

thankyou pado and sally...and apologies for constantly whinging !....he still hasn't got a name....we want something really special for him - hub wants a south american sounding name - and is keen on pablo...or maximus....which is latin (?) or manuel...we also thought about mango....we really must make a decision soon....with 5 in the family its hard to please everyone !....we keep calling him birdie at the moment and I fear it may stick at this rate !!...

thanks again for positive comments..will keep you posted on our progress...