Pluckin' Parrotlets

[lily]

For all who have or have had a plucker, I thought it would be interesting to report it in this thread. If you plucker is cured, what had the problem been? If your plucker isn't cured, what possibilities have been eliminated?

[lily]

What? All the parrotlets involved at this forum, and not one cured plucker among them? Certainly someone has a success story!

[Sally]

I hope someone will answer soon. I don't have a plucker.

[YWallpaper]

I am a little afraid that Ike is starting to pluck. He went through his first molt at 4 months, and since then every couple of weeks we will go through a couple of days where there are an unusually large number of feathers in the bottom of the cage. The last two days I have found flight feathers on the ground and I am getting concerned. He is 7 months old now so if he is plucking, I want to nip it in the bud now.

His conditions: he is getting 12 hours of sleep. We keep the room at about 70 degrees all day and bought a humidifier this weekend. We do have cats. He eats a primarily pellet diet, still working on fresh foods.

[lily]

Someone here may know the actual numbers, but it seems to me that first molts are lengthy ones, so everything might be normal. I don't know.

In my opinion, you are right to keep an eye on the situation; but be sure that the bird does not know that you are concerned so that he doesn't start manipulating you by plucking. Stay calm and unconcerned-- easy to say and HARD to do, I know.

What is his realtionship with the cats? Can you tell if they are in even the tiniest bit of a predator mode when they watch him? If so, can you see any link between times the cats watched him and his lost feathers? Has he ever had the opportunity to explore the cats' food, water, or litter pan?

Is there anything that happens at your house every few weeks? Perhaps a big laundry day with lots of dryer sheets, using air freshener in a remote room, the neighbor having the house or garden sprayed for pests, cooking a big meal, favorite person taking a class, a special food treat, a visitor, anxiety of any people flock members, scrubbing his cage...? A simple diary may reveal some clues in the future.

[cute_lil_fiend]

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In my opinion, you are right to keep an eye on the situation; but be sure that the bird does not know that you are concerned so that he doesn't start manipulating you by plucking. Stay calm and unconcerned-- easy to say and HARD to do, I know.



Wow...are there instances of parrots manipulating their owners through plucking? I guess you learn something new every day!

[YWallpaper]

I will start to keep track of the feather loss. Two days ago I worked a very long shift and did not see him all day- when I came home, after he was already in bed I noticed about 8 feathers on the floor, one of them a flight feather. (He was clipped but has since moulted all of those out; this was a new, unclipped feather.) Yesterday I came home around 2:30, much earlier than usual, and still noticed a large number of feathers, and another flight feather.

He has not been able to check out the cat's food dishes or litter, but if I am honest there IS cat hair on everything. Can that be an irritant? The cats do get curious and will put their paws up to his cage--I get them down when I see this but obviously am not there 24 hours a day. The cats' behavior does not seem to have a direct link to his plucking as far as I have seen (ie, seen him pluck right after the cat touched his cage). They are a constant presence and for the most part leave him alone. I was stressed out at work a couple of days ago. These are all good points to consider and I will try to find a pattern.

He doesn't look raggedy yet; I am only suspecting this because finding 10 feathers on the floor at the end of the day seems unusual.

[Pado]

I wouldn't worry too much since he's not showing any physical signs of being plucked yet. Birds do go through soft and hard molts. This could be a hard molt. If you see him actually pluck himself or notice physical signs - bare spots or a lot of spots with only down but no colored feathers etc. If you have to "wonder" and can't tell for sure if he has bare spots or area's with only down then he probably doesn't - you will know if he is getting bald patches they will be quite evident.

With all the talk of plucking when my birds went through a molt I was paranoid if I saw a down feather sticking through the green feathers but this happens in a molt.

But it is true if they see you freak and giving them more attention you can actually encourage this behavior. Wait and see if it passes (some molts last weeks to months). He may just feather out fine.

Can he fly? or is he just now growing in flight feathers and hasn't started flying yet? - you said you suspect he is picking at flight feathers - if he was able to fly and then you notice these flight feathers on the floor and all of a sudden he can't fly then there is a problem. A bird won't molt its flight feathers so much as to render them flightless - they will fall out but not enough to prevent the bird from flying.

My female has one flight feather that she can't keep for some reason - every time it grows in she loses it. I actually have gotten so use to it that I haven't looked lately to see if its there now or not.... I'll have to check now with I get home :)

Also it was posted that cats can freak out a bird even if the bird shows no signs they are bothering them. Some birds are just nervous Nelly's and some remember for a very long time if a cat ever bothered them - and just the presence of the cat can cause anxiety and we all know anxiety could lead to plucking.

But for now I really wouldn't worry too much. From what you have posted it sounds like its a molt. But keep a close eye and if you strongly believe he is plucking the start would be a vet visit to rule out any health or physical issue then you can work on any behavioral issues.

[YWallpaper]

Thanks everyone. Ike is flighted, I let all of his feathers grow in when he began to molt at 4 months. He is a great flier and I haven't noticed any decrease in his ability to maneuver. I'll just keep an eye on him for now. BTW Pado, what do you mean by hard molt and soft molt?

[chapala]

I wouldn't worry yet either. It easily can be just a regular molt, though you're seeing quite a few feathers. If no bare patches, not a problem right now.

I am more concerned about the cats though. If they can put their paws up to the cage, that has to be frightening for any bird. The cat is a predator and birds know it. I would make it a priority to place his cage where the cats can't get to it. How big is the cage? Can it be hung from a stand or the ceiling (not too high obvioiusly)? Can the bird be kept in a separate room from the cats when you're not right there? Besides an anxiety issue for the bird, if the cats have claws, evn a minor cat scratch is extremely dangerous to birds because of the bacteria they carry.
Reta

[YWallpaper]

I ordered the Windy City cage and it just arrived today. I will be assembling it tomorrow--the measurements are approximately 33x21x34. The cats are declawed and do not have a way of reaching inside his cage. The cats are very docile. I understand that people are concerned about keeping cats and birds together, but this is just the reality of my house. I am working to make it as safe as possible. The new cage will be moved slightly so that it is not next to the armchair, where the cats occasionally sit.

[chapala]

I just got that cage too, and it is very nice for a Parrotlet! I have it all set up for Cello with new boing and toys, but no bird. (: He is still with the woman who took care of him (and loved him!) while we were gone for 10 days. I came home sick, and still haven't been able to drive the 1/2 hour or so away to pick him up. I hope to get him tomorrow afternoon.

Glad to hear your cats are declawed. Many people keep dogs and cats along with parrots and don't have problems, but it's worth thinking about how to make it work as well as possible. Your plan to move the cage away from the chair where the cats sit is a good one.
Reta

[Pado]

Reta - welcome back. I hope you had a great vacation. Sorry to hear you are sick, I hope you feel better soon. Glad to hear you got your cage.

Ywallpaper - By a soft molt I mean an easy molt - the molt doesn't seem to bother the bird so the bird isn't agitated and isn't over grooming - during a soft molt you may notice less feathers and its over faster etc etc one or all of these could factor in -
A hard molt or heavy molt can be hard on the bird - lots of feathers being replaced the bird is irritated and its skin might be itchy and it grooms a lot as if picking at fleas or something :p and the molt may last longer.
Congrats on your new cage also.

We expect pictures from you both ;)

[lily]

I keep cats and the parrotlet seems to really enjoy their company. However, I was very careful introducing them, and I make sure that the cats never feel like the bird is getting more attention than they are. I would be concerned if the cats used the predator crouch or other aggressive body language around the bird. There was a time when they wanted to have their faces right on the bird's cage, but I kept calmly explaining and enforcing the rules until everyone settled down.

I asked about contact with the cats' supplies because of the possibility of internal parasites which would make the bird's skin very itchy. As the bird has never explored the litter pan, I think that possibility is pretty remote.

[LyndaM]

I hear you about cats and birds coexisting in your house; that's the same way it is here. My cats are also declawed, and I never saw them using the "predator crouch." The one that got ahold of Milo must have grabbed him with her mouth really quickly. The weird thing was that a cursory look at the bird didn't show that anything was wrong. Even though it was only a surface wound, he was dead within 24 hours. I so wish I could have him back; we miss him terribly. :(

Just please be as super duper careful as you can. I love my cats, after all I've had them for about 13 years, but I don't trust them one whit anymore.

[Pado]

Lynda if you don't mind you will be our voice of reason when it comes to this topic from now on. ;)

I also have an old very docile cat. He shows zero predatory behaviors even when outside in the yard with us. Its like the Peepers don't exist to him and are worthy of only the occasional glance when playing with a toy and making a ruckus. I'm not a betting man but I'm sure enough to bet he wouldn't bother them if he was sitting in their cage with them... providing they left him alone :p But even so he will never be allowed downstairs when the birds are out. If the birds grabbed onto his tail or paw (and we all know Plets are capable and likely to do this) the cat could swipe or bite at them in defense .... a number of different scenarios could take place no matter how careful we are as evident with Lynda's situation.
Even the most docile of cats have their predatory instincts in there somewhere ... I'm sure mine does too :eek:

Here's Baileeboi (His name is Bailey but we call him Bailey "boy").
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s115/Pado_photo/Peepers%20Posted%20Pics/DSC00095.jpg

[LyndaM]

Happy to be the harping voice of reason, Pado! (;) back at ya :D)! And, your Bailey looks like a real sweetheart!

Really, I don't mean to belabor this topic, but I just don't want any of you to feel as bad and responsible as I did/do. It just made my head spin how quickly it happened and how quickly Milo's life was snuffed out. I don't even think my cat was trying to "kill" him -- probably just thought he was a fun toy...:(

For me, given the toxicity of their saliva, it's more of a comparison of -- would you let you parrotlet hang out on a poisonous plant? Even if the parrotlet wasn't a biter, you probably wouldn't knowing that if the bird ever did, it would probably die . Think of a cat as a mobile, highly poisonous plant who, unlike a plant, has a natural instinct (whether squelched or not) to potentially seek your parrotlet out and eat him, if he could.

[YWallpaper]

Lynda,

Given what you have recently gone through I know where you are coming from when warning about cats. I will reiterate though for the sake of clarity that the cats and bird are NEVER allowed to be out together. They can't touch each other, EVER. The cats are in a room locked away when it is time for Ike to come out. To return to the topic of this thread, I will say again that I have not noticed a link yet between the cats' activities and Ike's suspected plucking.

[catfish]

My 3 cats are very interrested in the p'lets, but I think the p'lets like to torture them. The cats like to sit next to the cage while the p'lets run around the bottom taunting them and chirping at them. THe cats enjoy watching them in the cage, and the it gives something for the p'lets to play with in their own way.

Gelato's favorite thing to do is run around pushing a ball that chirps like him, especially when there are cats sitting on the book shelf next to them.

[LyndaM]

Sorry; the poisonous plant analogy doesn't work when you're not letting them come into contact. My mistake; I got carried away. Anyway, Pado's right about birds being nervous around cats even when they're locked up -- it could cause plucking. That certainly would be a problem here since I'm not about to boot the cats out (though I probably won't have any more after these).

Some people also say that some birds stop plucking when they aren't able to see a doorway where people enter the room.

I dont' know, we're trying various things at our house with our plucked hahn's. Hopefully something will work. I'll let ya know if it does!

[LyndaM]

Here's a really good thread on this from another forum. I did buy some hemp seed recently for my hahn's -- that's an idea for you too.

http://www.birdboard.com/forum/parrotlet/23391-please-help-my-feather-plucker.html

[lily]

My reason for mentioning cats was mostly about the possibility of getting internal parasites from them. Depending on the personalities you are dealing with, there is also the possibility of the bird's feeling nervous around the cats. By determining the onset of the plucking and comparing it with the cats' activities, I think it was already established that, in this case, the cats were probably not part of the problem. The diary will tell.

The aspect of the visibility of the door is another complicated one. Apparently some birds like to see everything that is going on and others are made nervous by that big hole that opens up and might cough out a threatening stranger.

One solution for either of these scenarios could be providing some sort of a shelter in the cage so that the bird can hide if it is frightened. Part of my bird's pocket training was to dive into my pocket if something scared her rather than trying to fly away from the threat.

Lynda, my heart breaks for you over Milo's death. It is a mystery as to what actually happened-- was the bird wet with saliva at all? Cat/bird, dog/bird relationships are an important topic of discussion; I think we should start a thread on it.

The more research I do on plucking, the more I think that diet may be involved in some way. Even if the problem is "nerves" or "boredom", a well nourished animal of any species is better able to handle stress. Thank you for the link and the comment about hemp seed.

[YWallpaper]

I wanted to let everyone know that since I moved Ike into his huge new cage two days ago, I have only found 1 or 2 downy feathers at the bottom of the cage. I wonder if that has made the difference?!?!?:D His mood has been much better and he has been more willing to play and let me pet him as well. Wow, I am so glad I got that new cage for him.