Fattening him up

[cute_lil_fiend]

Hi all,
I am wondering if you guys on this forum can share your excellent advice on getting my lil boy Pip to eat more.
As some might remember, I posted a couple of weeks ago about him getting quite sick. He stopped eating and got lethargic, fluffy, breathed heavily and passed watery/black stool. We thought he was a goner, but he's managed to hang on. He's been to 2 avian vets, neither of which have been able to diagnose him, and been on antiobotics and ulcer medication...and handled all the prodding, force-medicating and incubator imprisonment very well.
He still occasionally passes watery stool, and sleeps more than usual, but aside from that seems to be mending. My immediate worry now is his weight. He's down to an anoretic 21 g. He's always been little, when he was healthy he was just shy of 30 g. Right now I'm trying to fatten him up with millet, his regular seed on the side. We started using a supplement (in his water) because he's not eating fresh foods (he's never been a really big fan, but we try to give them to him)
I was wondering if anyone had foods they use to get their p'lets to gain weight/eat more or any strategies. Sometimes Pip will only eat out of my hand (the spoiled lil brat) and he has a good appetite, but he just doesn't seem to be gaining, and everytime I see his bony breast my heart aches for him.

[Pado]

I'm so glad to hear that Pip is still going strong - what a fighter! ;)

I must say I'm hesitant to advise on this - we're pretty much armatures here - and because of Pip's condition this is a tough one - Has your Vet given you any suggestions? I've heard of something Vets can give to jump start their appetite you may want to inquire to your Vet on this.

Maybe someone will write in who has had this issue with a sick Parrotlet - but personally I'd stick to whatever the Vet has to say.

[cute_lil_fiend]

The vet didn't mention anything about food other than to feed him millet and anything else he might like to eat.
Something strange that I also noticed today...there's alot of times he just 'poos' water. He has to strain hard, and the water (and only water, with a lil bit of the white stuff) literally shoots out of him. He drinks a lot of it too, and although the vet didn't say anything about it even when we explicitly brought it up, I think he might be having some kidney problems.
Either way...I guess I have to keep feeding him by hand.

[Sally]

I would maybe find a new avian vet that has more ideas. I hope he feels better. I would be so worried.

[Mustang99]

One thing I'd like to suggest but I would call and speak with a rep and also discuss with your vet is the Formula One product in the attached link...also there is a product called instant ounces which is emergency food for birds.
http://www.avitec.com/Formula-One-for-hand-feeding-hatchlings-p/qf1.htm
I spoke with the local Cleveland rep when I was at the bird fair this past Sunday and I am using a few of the products for Kiwi. I have a sampler of nutrients for daily use as well as a product for fungal and bacterial infections.
When I first joined the forum it was to post on a yeast infection that was reoccuring in Kiwi's crop that had me baffled and after determining that I was doing the right things for her, I couldn't continue having her on antibiotics since that affects the immune system. I'm pleased with the fact that she started showing slight signs of the infection, I have used the product and she has shown signs that I haven't seen in a long time. She is vocalizing more than ever, more energy and the sound that I would normally hear is gone.

I'm not saying that this is the route for every parrotlet but it is working for Kiwi.

With the extreme weight loss with Pip, it would be worth a call and hopefully finding a local source to get it right away if you find it is worth a try. another link to view http://www.allbirdproducts.com/articles/health/sickbirds.html

I wish you and Pip all the best...we are cheering him on. Please keep us posted, I'm so worried about the little guy.

[seraphim]

I think Sally's point is best. Consult with another avian vet. Quite difficult to diagnose some people and they can tell you what's hurting, let alone a bird. Did they do stool studies? Do they think he's loosing blood in his stools or is infected? Did they check his blood? Sorry, didn't read the original posting when he was sick. Sometimes wish I was a vet instead. Keep us posted. I'm rooting for the little guy (just hate it when living things suffer).

[seraphim]

There are other bird blogs out there,where there is an occasional vet. who gets on (just can't remember). You may want to post some questions around, see if anyone can give something more helpful. please chime in if anyone knows someone who can help.

[Koki]

The symptoms sound a bit familiar.

4 years ago, I became very lethargic, could hardly stay awake at work, fell asleep at 5:30 pm on the couch as soon as I got home, could hardly wake up in the morning.

I woke up every hour or so to urinate and drink a pint or quart of water. I was EXTremely thirsty. All day and night drinking and uriniating. I figure I was drinking between 2 and 3 gallons of water a day.

I also had to... exert..., to urinate.

My appetite was somewhat despondent, yes, I was hungry, but not all that much, didn't care for anything in particular, and sometimes would just go to bed rather then preparing a meal.

I did not go to a dr. until my vision became very blurry after about a month.

All of this was described to me as 'classic' signs of T2 diabetes by my physician. My fasting blood glucose was close to 500mg/ul.

I would not presume to say this is what your little guy has, but it may be worth asking a vet about it.

-Ronnie

[lily]

If you're stuck with the avian vet you've already seen, you can ask him specific questions which may remind him of research or give him more ideas. I like the idea of a super diet. I also read about a product that contained bee pollen-- another idea to run by the vet. My vets will resond to specific questions if I ask the receptionist to ask them, and they will call me with answers if I leave a list of questions in writing.

[cute_lil_fiend]

Well...here is another update on Pip.
As of late, he's lost even more weight, and is down to a scant 19 g. We try to encourage him to eat and offer him a variety of foods, but the only one he'll eat is millet, and in small quantities throughout the day. His excrement continues to be water most times and he drinks tons of water, but the colour and consistency of his poo at times when it is solid is normal. He's gone and plucked out all the feathers around him bum bum (I think the diarrhea stuck to and matted his bum feathers). Other than that he's mostly sleepy, but sometimes playful.
(pardon the mechanical quality of my writing, its 3 am here and I can't sleep due to him)
The vet provided us with a food for recovery, resembling a marriage btw parmesan cheese and chalk (clumpy but powdery looking) that we are to feed him, but he won't take it.

I'm at the end of my rope, and I really don't know what to do.
It's not like he doesn't eat, because he does. He just doesn't gain weight!
I'm also worried about the other symptoms and what they might represent collectively (thank you Koki for your very helpful food for thought). Hopefully he doesn't have some sort of avian diabetes... I could never imagine myself giving such a delicate creature 2 insulin injections daily when the first shot he had might easy push him over the edge.

Sadly I think I will have to resort to force-feeding him with a syringe to make sure that he does gain weight.

Although I want to try everything to make him well again, I know that addressing the eating & weight problem is only a temporary fix, and in the end I must find out what is/was causing all of these symptoms. Hopefully i can first get him to gain weight, then take it from there.

Thank you to all the kind and helpful souls on this forum who've helped me with words of knowledge and kindness so far.

LL

[Mustang99]

LL...my heart breaks to read that Pip is down to 19 gms. Have you asked your vet if there is another option to feed him that he would respond to better? maybe check with your vet on the link that I sent you for the emergency ounces food that you can mix and feed Pip by dropper. I watch for your updates often for I'm holding you and Pip in my thoughts and wish for the best. Keep us posted...

[Sally]

I am so sorry about Pip being so thin and still not eating. I would just keep seeing the vet or finding another for help. I am so sorry, I know you are so sad. I am praying for Pip, stay strong, we are here for you.

[musicjan]

Oh - I'm so sorry Pip is having a hard time. What would happen if you dipped his millet in baby food (veggies or fruit kind). Would he still eat it? Can you hand feed him anything besides millet? I haven't read all the posts, so I apologize if someone has already suggested this or if you've covered these ideas already. All the best to you! Lots of love, prayers, hopes for the best!

[Pado]

I am so sorry you are going through this with Pip. I can't imagine what it must be like for you or Pip :(

I really wish your Avian Vet was of more help to you - have you considered locating a different one? -

It sounds like there is a lot more going on with Pip's recuperation than him just not eating enough to gain weight. Most P'let's on a millet only diet would get fat. There is definitely something major going on still and I think him eating more may not be the answer. I'd highly recommend locating a different Avian Vet for a second opinion.

[lily]

I don't remember this whole thread, but it just occurred to me that some animals are nauseated by fragrances to the point that they can't eat enough, and they finally have to be "coax" fed. (Our vets say that because it sounds less violent than force feeding.) Anyway, if you haven't already checked, you might hunt for ANY source of synthetic fragrance in any part of the house, as well as any essential oils he might be smelling. Even cedar shavings under the cage is reported to sicken some birds. Just a thought...

[cute_lil_fiend]

Pip went over the rainbow bridge today.
I hope he's in birdy heaven now...no more suffering.
Thank you everyone for your wishes.

If you can hear me Pip...I love you.

[Cydney]

It breaks my heart to read that. I think we all know how hard you fought for him. Sometimes it's just out of our control. Sending prayers your way.

[Morena]

I'm so sorry to here about your sweet Pip. You can take comfort in knowing you did everything you could for him and he knew it.

Morena

[Mustang99]

My heart and prayers go out to you and Pip. We all know how much you tried and that you were there with him all the way. Please know how deeply sorry I am for your loss.

[ArtS]

It hurt when I read your last post. I am truly sorry for your loss. You really did all you could to save little Pip.

Sincerely,

Art S.

[catfish]

I am very sorry, you are a great parront and did all you could. At least he was at home with you and felt safe with you.

[drab91]

I am so sorry to hear this, you did as much as you could to try and help him, but he is defiantly in a better place now.. Fly free PIP!

[birdiemom]

Oh...I'm so very sorry. But you loved him and helped all you could.

[Pado]

I'm very sorry to hear about Pip passing. I'm sure he is in birdie heaven and fully restored to his old self.
You did your very best for him and I hope you find solace in that.

[memmey]

God love him......

[Sally]

I am terribly sorry you lost Pip. You did a great job with him. He is free now. No more suffering. Fly free sweet Pip!.... Goodbye Pip, we miss you...http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/Sally11/AAANEW.gif